The Thread for all the Shit we just couldn't let go of!

The other annoying RP type is the one that creeps in when you've been RPing for too long (i.e. become an old bastard!). Usually, among my RL friends who are also RPers, this exhibits as *always* playing the underdog/weirdo/cripple/silly person. It is actually quite funny most of the time, but then you realise they are "anti" addicted to *not* (ever) playing the hero! So it's kinda a role reversal of the kiddies who claim to be half-sons of gods/demons/heroes, etc

Anti hero >>> hero *nods*

Liontooth wrote:

Anti hero >>> hero *nods*

You must be the kind of @£^&! who likes Twilight, then.

Opathu wrote:

Liontooth wrote:

Anti hero >>> hero *nods*

You must be the kind of @£^&! who likes Twilight, then.

Yes because the MC of that is such the anti hero?

he sparkles!

In a game like Warcraft you are made out to be the greatest thing since sliced bread from the moment your press enter on the character select screen.

However the player themselves can make this slightly more interesting or can go the opposite way and play the comic book bad guy (Hi Oppy )

Liontooth wrote:

In a game like Warcraft you are made out to be the greatest thing since sliced bread from the moment your press enter on the character select screen.

However the player themselves can make this slightly more interesting or can go the opposite way and play the comic book bad guy (Hi Oppy )

Does that make Gurfang a lunatic from Sin City?

Gurfang wrote:

Liontooth wrote:

In a game like Warcraft you are made out to be the greatest thing since sliced bread from the moment your press enter on the character select screen.

However the player themselves can make this slightly more interesting or can go the opposite way and play the comic book bad guy (Hi Oppy )

Does that make Gurfang a lunatic from Sin City?

Certainly don't think there is a heroic term for Gurfang...

Then again...The less cheerleading Night Elves the better.

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Oh but you have to realize you're on a roleplaying server now. The population of Azeroth no longer consist of racially and culturally consistent people. On a roleplaying server, everyone's a special and unique snowflake who desperately struggle to break free of the restraints imposed upon them by their race and culture. Why? Because if they don't, they're not speschul anymore. Sadly, this also results in everybody being 'speschul', and there aren't anyone left to play the baseline these oh so fantastic and 'original' characters compare themselves with. And the best way to be 'speschul'? Renounce all racial stereotypes, especially the ingrained hostility towards (insert that specific race's historical enemy of choice here).

There's also the sad fact that since this server is PvP enabled, the pure RP realmers coming here are so out of their gourd terrified of having to back up their claims to Godly Power, that they try to stay on everybody's good side. If they didn't, they might have to try and back up their boasting and fail horribly at it. This is mostly due to that ridiculous notion that roleplayers can't PvP, which they apparently are dead set on perpetuating.

But have no fear. There are rumblings at Mount Devatoa, and sooner or later that volcano will erupt. There will be war. There will be blood, pain, sorrow and destruction. And it will be... glorious...

This is a quote from the epilogue server forum. It's an answer to the question "Where the heck is all the war at?" and I found it to be a good answer. Is there too much special princess hug eachoterh RP on SSL? Isn't this really quite a lorelol in itself, seeing as how infinitely DEEP the racial hate and distrust is? Is it -really- likely that a person who has grown up with this as the universal Truth would go against it?

Quintilius wrote:

This is a quote from the epilogue server forum. It's an answer to the question "Where the heck is all the war at?" and I found it to be a good answer. Is there too much special princess hug eachoterh RP on SSL? Isn't this really quite a lorelol in itself, seeing as how infinitely DEEP the racial hate and distrust is? Is it -really- likely that a person who has grown up with this as the universal Truth would go against it?

Nope, no, yes. We're all RPing unique characters, but at what point does "unique" become special princess fuckity etc? Generally it seems to be much worse than it is when you're predisposed to see it everywhere (like most things do). It's never been the case that the exceptions outnumber the typical examples, and the only reason it would seem that way was if someone was out to bitch about the state of this or that to begin with.

As for realism, people overcome this shit RL on a (relatively) regular basis. Saying people wouldn't is just oversimplification; people need to realise there would be as much diversity between members of in-game races as there is between humans. Also remember that the characters we play will naturally be atypical of their race because they're all well-travelled and have a lot more contact with other cultures than the average troll/dwarf/corpse who spends all his time wanking in one zone or city.

The complaint often seems to be that "it's okay with a couple of exceptions, but too many ruins things", but the problem with that (aside from the fact that people always overstate the problem) once a character type is recognised as possible and believable, even if a high number of those types is less believable everyone has a right to play one and not be called a crap RPer...after all, they're not obliged to defer to the people who got there first. If everyone RPs like that, yes it sucks a bit, but it will suck when too many people play similar characters, regardless of what those characters are. The problem is that everyone's the same, not how they're the same. It's a crappy state of affairs, but no-one's particularly to blame or in need of ranting at.

Apologies if I'm even less structured or coherent than usual, I'm on a shitty computer that recognise about 1/3 of my keystrokes. It's...distracting. >.>

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As for realism, people overcome this shit RL on a (relatively) regular basis. Saying people wouldn't is just oversimplification; people need to realise there would be as much diversity between members of in-game races as there is between humans. Also remember that the characters we play will naturally be atypical of their race because they're all well-travelled and have a lot more contact with other cultures than the average troll/dwarf/corpse who spends all his time wanking in one zone or city.

This I do not agree with.

You have to realise here is that this world we play in is NOT like the real one. The entire world is more or less a warzone between different things (more than just horde and alliance) and the main thing going on is pure racial hatred between two factions of different races.

Considering this, considering the past that the humans and orcs have had for example and considering that there is still provokations coming from both factions...No I do not agree that people in Azeroth would "get over it" so easily.

Liontooth wrote:

This I do not agree with.
You have to realise here is that this world we play in is NOT like the real one. The entire world is more or less a warzone between different things (more than just horde and alliance) and the main thing going on is pure racial hatred between two factions of different races.

But people deal with it. It's not an equation whereby nastiness = this specific reaction. People don't feel every conflict, just the ones relevant to them, and they find their ways to deal with it and react...just like in the real world. It's that last part that makes good RP, finding out how and why your character deals with it. RPing a carebear is not automatically bad, just as RPing a xenocidal racist is not automatically good; it's RPing a carebear without it having a proper justification for your character that's bad (whether that justification is a long complex backstory or simply a peaceful nature they were born with). RPing racism and xenophobia without proper roots makes you just as bad an RPer, it just means you're less likely to be taken to task for it because our nature means we're more likely to expect and not question someone who slaps back and lets their gut reaction get the better of them than someone who turns the other cheek.

The world we play IS like the real one - it's a troubled, conflicted place populated by a bunch of little individual people who all have their own ways of dealing with it.

*cough*...yeah, it's quite hard to articulate my views on this without coming across as pretentious.

tl;dr: Have a plausible explanation/reason for your character's actions and reactions and it won't matter if they're overly good or overly evil.


That about sum it up?

Leaf wrote:

tl;dr: Have a plausible explanation/reason for your character's actions and reactions and it won't matter if they're overly good or overly evil.


That about sum it up?

Missing out the response to the "it's not like the real world" assertion and the problem with complaining about having too much of one kind of RP...yes, although the trouble is people can read things into a simple short statement that they can't if you expound on your point for paragraphs until everyone's minds bleed.

Thing is....There is more than enough reason for people to be racist and xenophobic since that is what this game is based on.

It certainly does not make you a bad RPer if you play a night elf that acts arsey to humans...In fact it is perfectly acceptable for nelfs to be like that. What makes no sense is for people to be happy huggy "just because"...There has to be a really damn good reason how they can remain like that in such a world.

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The world we play IS like the real one - it's a troubled, conflicted place populated by a bunch of little individual people who all have their own ways of dealing with it.

The troubles and conflicts in Azeroth can, in no way, be compared to RL. If RL had azeroths troubles I really doubt people would not be at each others throats...Hell we are currently fighting amongst ourselves just fine...Imagine adding a few extra humanoid races to that out of the blue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r3gVs6UG5Q

This is the the real world. Fuck you pussies who tries to say otherwise.

EDIT : OH YES POSTING ON TEH INTERWEBS WHILE DRUNK , GREAT IDEA. SORRY PEOPLE

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The troubles and conflicts in Azeroth can, in no way, be compared to RL. If RL had azeroths troubles I really doubt people would not be at each others throats...Hell we are currently fighting amongst ourselves just fine...Imagine adding a few extra humanoid races to that out of the blue.

Our characters don't have the god's eye view of Azeroth we do. The only conflicts that need to be kept in mind are the ones that directly affect the character, the world being generally warlike and screwed up has no bearing on matters for the individual characters who have their own and only their own problems to deal with. The world may be different, but the way people are affected by and respond to the world is always the same.

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It certainly does not make you a bad RPer if you play a night elf that acts arsey to humans...In fact it is perfectly acceptable for nelfs to be like that.

Of course it is. Just as it's acceptable for him not to be a douche. It's bad RP if he has no reason to be a douche - if that reason is "because it's part of the culture he was brought up in", that has as many implications for his character as him going huggy does and needs to be followed through in the same ways to be called good RP.

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What makes no sense is for people to be happy huggy "just because"...There has to be a really damn good reason how they can remain like that in such a world.

"Their underlying personality" is a damn good reason. Thrall and Varian illustrate how a very similar experience sends different people in completely different directions. This is what I was talking about before, the assumption that because the 'bad' reaction seems like the natural one, a character responding any differently is something that needs "justification". The default state isn't angry xenophobia or universal acceptance, it's neutrality. There may be more reasons in the setting to be angry, but that leaves plenty of room for other influences or ways for the character to look at the world.

Benton wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r3gVs6UG5Q

This is the the real world. Fuck you pussies who tries to say otherwise.

A bunch of Uruk Hai strangling cats is the real world?

Benton wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r3gVs6UG5Q

This is the the real world. Fuck you pussies who tries to say otherwise.

yeah... this doesn't really constitute an argument.

Crowley wrote:

Our characters don't have the god's eye view of Azeroth we do. The only conflicts that need to be kept in mind are the ones that directly affect the character, the world being generally warlike and screwed up has no bearing on matters for the individual characters who have their own and only their own problems to deal with. The world may be different, but the way people are affected by and respond to the world is always the same.

I am sorry but that is alot of crap. Are you honestly saying that things that have happened in the history and the current situation on WoW does not affect everyone in the world?

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Of course it is. Just as it's acceptable for him not to be a douche. It's bad RP if he has no reason to be a douche - if that reason is "because it's part of the culture he was brought up in", that has as many implications for his character as him going huggy does and needs to be followed through in the same ways to be called good RP.

Read up on Nelf lore and you will get all the reasons you need. Warcraft is a big bad racist world...To say otherwise is a delusion.

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"Their underlying personality" is a damn good reason. Thrall and Varian illustrate how a very similar experience sends different people in completely different directions. This is what I was talking about before, the assumption that because the 'bad' reaction seems like the natural one, a character responding any differently is something that needs "justification". The default state isn't angry xenophobia or universal acceptance, it's neutrality. There may be more reasons in the setting to be angry, but that leaves plenty of room for other influences or ways for the character to look at the world.

actually if you read up on Varian, he did not become SMASH ORCS because he was put through the same thing thrall was...There is an entire story line featuring events like himself even trying to make peace with the horde...Then getting captured. What threw Varian over the edge was the Wrathgate event.

Problem is that you say people RPing racists and Xenophobes instantly makes them bad RPers...So why do you think the other hand does not need justification? This world works alot more differently than you perceive. The mentality in a war torn world where swords and spells clash daily can not be compared to the mentality of the RL where most of the terrible stuff happens out of your reach...In fact if it was not for media you would not know about it.

Liontooth wrote:

The mentality in a war torn world where swords and spells clash daily can not be compared to the mentality of the RL where most of the terrible stuff happens out of your reach...In fact if it was not for media you would not know about it.

Liontooth wrote:

Are you honestly saying that things that have happened in the history and the current situation on WoW does not affect everyone in the world?

Yes. The goblins of Titfuck Island haven't been able to fix their TV transmitter yet, and the mobile phone reception is appalling.

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Read up on Nelf lore and you will get all the reasons you need.

That would be the "part of his culture thing I mentioned.

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actually if you read up on Varian, he did not become SMASH ORCS because he was put through the same thing thrall was...There is an entire story line featuring events like himself even trying to make peace with the horde...Then getting captured. What threw Varian over the edge was the Wrathgate event.

While Thrall was merely stolen from his parents, emotionally and physically tortured from the age of one and forced to fight creatures twice the size of him when he could barely stand on a regular basis. Pussy got off lightly.

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Problem is that you say people RPing racists and Xenophobes instantly makes them bad RPers

Didn't say anything close to that.

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So why do you think the other hand does not need justification?

Or that.

Liontooth wrote:

Are you honestly saying that things that have happened in the history and the current situation on WoW does not affect everyone in the world?

Or tha...yeah, I'm detecting a theme here.

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The mentality in a war torn world where swords and spells clash daily can not be compared to the mentality of the RL where most of the terrible stuff happens out of your reach.

The comparison is obviously to people living with conflict in RL, not the kind of people who play WoW.

I have to say that Crowley's point about characters only really reacting to things that directly affect them is spot on. Individuals are parochial beings with an individualistic streak that means they put themselves first. Whether they do that in a positive way ("for the common good") or a negative way ("get as much as I can for myself") or somewhere in between they will still be looking at it from the point of view of things that directly affect them on a daily basis.
Now, some will have a more worldly view of things because they will have decided to roam and travel as their modus operandi but others will have a point of view that is FAR closer to home.

Now, as to the real world relating to Azeroth, I should point out that although humans all have highly similar features that would make an ignorant Tauren say that we all look alike you are ignoring the factor of the Nation State. Just look at the views of the vast majority of Brits to the stupidity (guess which side of the fence I stand on!) of what's going on with the European Union! Also look at the stuff that has happened in the Balkans, stuff that has happened in Ireland, stuff that IS happening in Afghanistan and so on. Whether it is verbal barracking or full-blown war, we still have the same sort of racial splits that you see in WoW and they are just as prevalent in RL as IC.

I agree with Crowley: our characters will care about only the conflicts that directly affect them. Why would an average Westfall peasant care about the epic war against the Lich King? No, he would care about the Defias Brotherhood raiding their farms. On the other hand, a soldier in Northrend would care only about the Lich King, and not give a damn about the Defias Brotherhood.
Also, people can react differently to a conflict, depending on their personality: becaming hateful and vengeful, trying to destroy their enemies - or completely the opposit, having enough of war and conflict, trying to bring peace. Or, a human child could have heard stories how brutal and bloodthirsty orcs are - which could make him completely accept this, or think the opposite, that the orcs are actually good and misunderstood people.
We don't have so many sentient species on Earth as Azeroth does - we have only humans and that's all -, but we do have races and nations who are almost as different in culture and ideals as the species on Azeroth, so I find parallels justified.

This was an interesting topic with valid points, but now it’s just turned into a lot of bullshit as a result of the “must prove Liontooth wrong” schpiel.

Growing up in a place where I was not sheltered by the justice system of a developed country and when racism and hate crime runs rampart, Liontooth has a fairly open minded view that shouldn’t be torn apart and labelled as crap. There is a –lot- of truth in it.