The Thread for all the Shit we just couldn't let go of!

Arguing with Liontooth seems like a real pain, so the only thing i'm gonna say is that i'm also taking Crowley's side here.

Oh goody where to begin.

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Yes. The goblins of Titfuck Island haven't been able to fix their TV transmitter yet, and the mobile phone reception is appalling.

Cool story bro

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That would be the "part of his culture thing I mentioned.

And there you have it...One reason neatly packed.

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Didn't say anything close to that.

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RPing racism and xenophobia without proper roots makes you just as bad an RPer,

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Or tha...yeah, I'm detecting a theme here.

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The only conflicts that need to be kept in mind are the ones that directly affect the character, the world being generally warlike and screwed up has no bearing on matters for the individual characters who have their own and only their own problems to deal with.

The thing people are not understanding here is that there is very little that goes on that doesn't affect them. Unless your character has been a hermit living under a rock you can not possibly say <insert problem here> does not affect me even though it affects the rest of my race.

There worst you have, at this moment in time in real life, is piss poor politics and a few groups going around being a pest...In WoW you have that as well as dragons, undead, other humanoids at each others throats, world in constant danger from gods and many more.

So no you can not compare RL to WoW unless you are going to humanize all the races...Which is tacky and poor RP.

You can play the parallel but you really should have a outstanding and undeniable reason rather than "just because"...Far too many people have this odd "live and let live" attitude which really does not compute with Warcraft.

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Arguing with Liontooth seems like a real pain, so the only thing i'm gonna say is that i'm also taking Crowley's side here.

Glad to be of service

My grandfather died during WWII, so does that give me a reason to hate germans? I mean, i haven't even met him once, but, according to your logic, his death should affect me to the extent at least.

Also, take trolls for example. They might hate humans (cause humans attacked them in the fist place), and maybe the forsaken (due to religious beliefs). That's it. Their culture has never been affected by other races until about 10 years ago.

P.S. I know i shouldn't have done it, but still...

Avior wrote:

My grandfather died during WWII, so does that give me a reason to hate germans? I mean, i haven't even met him once, but, according to your logic, his death should affect me to the extent at least.

Also, take trolls for example. They might hate humans (cause humans attacked them in the fist place), and maybe the forsaken (due to religious beliefs). That's it. Their culture has never been affected by other races until about 10 years ago.

Are the nazis still attacking? No? Moot point.

Liontooth wrote:

And there you have it...One reason neatly packed.

See above.

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The thing people are not understanding here is that there is very little that goes on that doesn't affect them. Unless your character has been a hermit living under a rock you can not possibly say <insert problem here> does not affect me even though it affects the rest of my race.

See above.

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There worst you have, at this moment in time in real life, is piss poor politics and a few groups going around being a pest...In WoW you have that as well as dragons, undead, other humanoids at each others throats, world in constant danger from gods and many more.

See above.

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You can play the parallel but you really should have a outstanding and undeniable reason rather than "just because"...Far too many people have this odd "live and let live" attitude which really does not compute with Warcraft.

See above.

Liontooth wrote:

Avior wrote:

My grandfather died during WWII, so does that give me a reason to hate germans? I mean, i haven't even met him once, but, according to your logic, his death should affect me to the extent at least.

Also, take trolls for example. They might hate humans (cause humans attacked them in the fist place), and maybe the forsaken (due to religious beliefs). That's it. Their culture has never been affected by other races until about 10 years ago.

Are the nazis still attacking? No? Moot point.

Alright... Do taurens attack any other Horde races? Trolls? Maybe orcs then? As for forsaken, nobody likes them anyway.

That makes no sense what so ever Crowley...

I am beginning to see what Speatus is talking about...If it is a competition to try and prove me wrong then sorry but no longer interested...Shame, I thought people where a bit more level headed

Speatus wrote:

This was an interesting topic with valid points, but now it’s just turned into a lot of bullshit as a result of the “must prove Liontooth wrong” schpiel.

It's not that people want to prove him wrong as such, it's just that, while most people are offering their opinions and their own views on the topics at hand, and generally saying "Well, there are a variety of valid attitudes here", Liontooth's posts have the feeling of him smashing down the gavel yelling "To HELL with your measly opinions, what I say is the TRUTH and is OBVIOUSLY CORRECT and anyone who disagrees is a CRAP ROLEPLAYER."

This is what's attracting the pile-up.

Liontooth wrote:

I am beginning to see what Speatus is talking about...If it is a competition to try and prove me wrong then sorry but no longer interested...Shame, I thought people where a bit more level headed

Too late, the high horse bolted about ten pages ago.

Well, i won't stop people from thinking that their PoV is so speshul that it requires a 40man raid to prove them wrong. Usually it's quite the opposite.

Nerissa wrote:

Speatus wrote:

This was an interesting topic with valid points, but now it’s just turned into a lot of bullshit as a result of the “must prove Liontooth wrong” schpiel.

It's not that people want to prove him wrong as such, it's just that, while most people are offering their opinions and their own views on the topics at hand, and generally saying "Well, there are a variety of valid attitudes here", Liontooth's posts have the feeling of him smashing down the gavel yelling "To HELL with your measly opinions, what I say is the TRUTH and is OBVIOUSLY CORRECT and anyone who disagrees is a CRAP ROLEPLAYER."

This is what's attracting the pile-up.

If that is what people are reading then no wonder there is so much butthurt and defensive. If my points where completely flawed they would be shown up by now but instead people start rambling, repeating and, my personal favourtie, getting agressive.

So yeah kinda lost all interest now. People can read this thread and take from it what they wish and I appologise for trying to argue against the clicke

*gets on moral high horse that he, clearly, was trying to chase this thread and rides off leaving people and their measly opinions in the dust*

Excellent. Now, next topic: what happens when female druids get pregnant?

Nerissa wrote:

Excellent. Now, next topic: what happens when female druids get pregnant?

If they're feral, they'll give birth to a litter of cubs and kittens.

Snicka wrote:

Nerissa wrote:

Excellent. Now, next topic: what happens when female druids get pregnant?

If they're feral, they'll give birth to a litter of cubs and kittens.

I think that was more a shapeshifting question.

Tsk, me and my elitist clique of people I've never spoken to before...

Liontooth wrote:

*gets on moral high horse that he, clearly, was trying to chase this thread and rides off leaving people and their measly opinions in the dust*

See above.

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Excellent. Now, next topic: what happens when female druids get pregnant?

There's a case that could be made that every druid form exists completely separately, so only the pregnant form would be pregnant, and diseases, injuries and the like wouldn't be carried across. The idea of the baby shapeshifting in the womb constantly doesn't really hold water for me since pregnancies can be screwed up by much less dramatic things than that.

You are all wrong because I say so

Liontooth wrote:

You are all wrong because I say so

He makes a good point.

Though aren't the worlds problems YOUR problem in world of warcraft? Aren't your character among the heroes on the frontline who has to deal with the worlds problems everyday? There's really few who RP's the lowly farmer who only cares about his crops and wether or not his sour lady will lift her skirts for him the coming night.

Besides, the minds and cultures in world of warcraft can't really be transfered over to the real world, because in the real world the differences are between humans and allthough there are different races and skin colors we are all ultimately humans and that will allways count for something. However in world of warcraft that is not so, there you have entirely different species, who some of them your character would have hundreds of years, sometimes thousands of years of animosity and war to build up under his view of that other race.

When rivers run red of blood and the fires of war is the common denominator, a poisoned blade in the darkness of the Drag is more common than drive by shootings in America, when dabbling with forces that are nothing but corruption, dealings with demons who wants nothing else than to see your soul dovoured and your skin sizzle and burn, when living corpses shamble around and allthough some of them won't seek to eat your flesh and rip your still thumping heart out of your ribcage, but most of them will. Where around every corner awaits another horror, be it quivering masses of flesh eating goo or creatures made out of shadow itself. Where magical forces are so potent that they can turn the holiest paladin into a frothing madman....And all of this shit happens everyday.. and most of the fucking wars that are around are based on one thing... our race against the other.

In a world like that... You're not likely to be a very nice person who meets everyone with a smile and a hug, because frankly.. that would probably lead to your early death, because chances are the other person wants either your life, your soul, your gold or your precious man-pussy. And you better make sure he wants neither of that before you throw him a cuddle or twirl around to show him your new dress.

And yes racism and such views may be harboured by those who live their sheltered lives within their own city and they know not much of the world, however those who travel and meet other people and races would probably be just as racist, because they see how their every preconception are True.

In the excection of those few individuals ofcourse, which is perfectly fine, just know that it's not common and should have a special reason tied to it.

I'm not saying that all RP on SSL is the nice huggy one. But I am saying its ALOT of it. I have seen it. Thankfully on Epilogue we gamemasters have the power to steer the way of how the world develops and too much friendly chit chat in bars and cuddling between races have been spotted, so soon the fires of WAR shall be pushed in their faces so their eyebrows are singed away.. making them look real silly.

That simply isn't the way the Warcraft world is presented though, Marius. The level of nastiness you describe just isn't how WoW presents its characters and races; sure, the ingredients are all there for a nasty, Warhammer-style world half empty where everything's trying to kill you, but the prevailing attitude is a surprisingly good one, among the NPCs and in the lore. Making out that everyone would be a dick by default just doesn't hold water when the different races are regularly shown as fully able to get along when they care to and the likes of Garrosh and King Varian Whyne are seen for what they are by a fair few people. If you take the god's eye view of Azeroth, it's a fucked up place, but like I said a character only needs to cope with the bits of it that actually affect them, and it's perfectly possible for individuals to wind up all right.

As before, an overly-negative view of life on Azeroth clashes just as badly with the setting's tone as a sugar-coated one. This game is all about shades of grey, many of them actually pretty light ones. There's nasty and realistic touches to the setting, but there's plenty of humour and idealistic notes as well. Ignoring either of those is just as bad. Negativity is not automatically more 'realistic'; a character seething with hatred against his ancestral enemies isn't by default more sensible or logical than one who wants to give peace a chance when the background shows characters on both sides.

just sayin' it's more likely that's all.

Hey, no fair, I thought we were having a wall-of-text off.

[quote="Crowley
But people deal with it. It's not an equation whereby nastiness = this specific reaction. People don't feel every conflict, just the ones relevant to them, and they find their ways to deal with it and react...just like in the real world. [/quote]

what fucking conflict have you been in?..

ive been in three major conflicts and see alort of shit, but i dont drag it into my rp, as im playing some one else not my self, to try and say this game world is just like Rl is crap its nothing like it as the world of wow is the extrem.

Snicka wrote:

I agree with Crowley: our characters will care about only the conflicts that directly affect them. Why would an average Westfall peasant care about the epic war against the Lich King? No, he would care about the Defias Brotherhood raiding their farms. On the other hand, a soldier in Northrend would care only about the Lich King, and not give a damn about the Defias Brotherhood.
Also, people can react differently to a conflict, depending on their personality: becaming hateful and vengeful, trying to destroy their enemies - or completely the opposit, having enough of war and conflict, trying to bring peace. Or, a human child could have heard stories how brutal and bloodthirsty orcs are - which could make him completely accept this, or think the opposite, that the orcs are actually good and misunderstood people.
We don't have so many sentient species on Earth as Azeroth does - we have only humans and that's all -, but we do have races and nations who are almost as different in culture and ideals as the species on Azeroth, so I find parallels justified.

why would anyone in the UK or anyother part of the world careabout the war in the middles east, and the young men and women dieing? the care because the guys fighting are doing it for them, and you care about your own

Why do you talk?

Crowley wrote:

Why do you talk?

Because you are wrong