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 The Thread for all the Shit we just couldn't let go of!

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Siheld

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PostSubject: Re: The Thread for all the Shit we just couldn't let go of!   Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:20 pm

Lyranne wrote:
Then he died horribly..

I'm sorry that I don't have anything constructive to say (yes I know, I never have something contructive to say), but this made me curious.

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Lyranne

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PostSubject: Re: The Thread for all the Shit we just couldn't let go of!   Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:12 pm

Siheld wrote:
Lyranne wrote:
Then he died horribly..

I'm sorry that I don't have anything constructive to say (yes I know, I never have something contructive to say), but this made me curious.

Basically, Marran started as a xenophobic arsehole Belf that was aided (much to his chagrin) by a tauren, then a troll. He tried to dismiss them as exceptions that prove the rule, bgut as he continued his troubled journey through Azeroth he came upon the realisation that his blinkered world view was a discredit to individuals. As he became a better person, he in a cruel twist of fate started to lose everything. His girlfriend abandoned him for the man who nearly killed Marran, and he was left blind in one eyes, with an arm that couldn't be mended. It happened in Winterspring, and as his broken and bleeding body had been exposed to such elements, he became deathly ill. He was dying and new it, and had little left to fight for.

Then there was a mission for his Guild that he had hoped would give him some focus. alas, in his team was a headstrong hunter who went a little gung-ho, and before Marran knew it, he was surrounded by Scarlet goons, and couldn't fend for himself (bad arm, low level, nearly dead and a Priest = no chance in hell alone). He called out for his comrade, but to no avail. Marran died that day, with nothing left in the material world.
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Opathu

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PostSubject: Re: The Thread for all the Shit we just couldn't let go of!   Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:32 pm

I always thought of Vexacus and Vypra as the gypsies of WoW. Now who will I have to throw my rotten vegetables at? Sad
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Emanee

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PostSubject: Re: The Thread for all the Shit we just couldn't let go of!   Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:43 pm

So hai.... what have I missed?
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Snicka

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PostSubject: Re: The Thread for all the Shit we just couldn't let go of!   Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:47 pm

Emanee wrote:
So hai.... what have I missed?

Just a lot of gay crap. Wink

Snicka was initially very racist, disliked the forsaken and especially the sin'dorei (because of his half-amani ancestry) a lot. He had not much problem with orcs and tauren, but he still thought of them as less intelligent than trolls. However, he realized at one point that the only way he and the Heritage can survive within the Horde (at least he thought so) is having good contact with the other people they share the faction with. Because of this, he invited emissaries to the Heritage of Zandalar (Lyranne being the only one of those who remained with them for a long time), and gradually accepted that there are some elves and undead that are not so bad after all.
His confrontations with people like Teeboppity, Huor, Kethin or Archnazg have confirmed his preconception: the undead and the elves are initially malevolent, and people like Lyranne or Alaster are the rare exceptions. On the other hand, he saw hostile trolls like Shadowtroll as the rare exceptions who bend away from their initially good race.
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PostSubject: Re: The Thread for all the Shit we just couldn't let go of!   Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:53 pm

Why not be racist in wow...? Its a racist game.. *shrug* (not that Im complaining :p )
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Snicka

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PostSubject: Re: The Thread for all the Shit we just couldn't let go of!   Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:02 pm

Daidrax wrote:
Why not be racist in wow...? Its a racist game.. *shrug* (not that Im complaining :p )

The question is: why be not racist? Lots of players play their characters as very tolerant, liberal people; the question is, how they explain such an attitude?
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Shadowtroll

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PostSubject: Re: The Thread for all the Shit we just couldn't let go of!   Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:17 pm

Its cool to be friendly! Its hip to be nice, to hug the Death Knight next to you and so on! Being rude IC is being rude OOC! Oh no! Your sooo bad! Buh buh




. . .

Damn I hate such players, yes I do!

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Emanee

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PostSubject: Re: The Thread for all the Shit we just couldn't let go of!   Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:20 pm

Emanee was just.... silly... basically... dispite the sterotypical whole family except sister wiped out by Orcz she never really held a grudge. Mainly because she was my first dip into RP (and her first friend was a Warlock... who yes, did show his true colours eventually). Even when she was killed and one way or another brought back she still didnt consider Gurfang as particularly bad nor Tivak nor Korroz.

Mainly she wanted to see the good in everyone, and even the bad she just dismissed as 'having a bad day'.

But yeah, mainly because it was my first 'go' at RP and therefore sufficiently wishy washy - I wanted to incorporate her RP into the PvE I followed and the only way I could often think of was 'banding together to kill the bad things and have a party afterwards'.

My Dark elf in RP is similar though she does have an underside I managed to keep hidden when I played her.... mostly.

But yeah my good was inexperience.
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Snicka

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PostSubject: Re: The Thread for all the Shit we just couldn't let go of!   Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:20 pm

Shadowtroll wrote:
Its cool to be friendly! Its hip to be nice, to hug the Death Knight next to you and so on! Being rude IC is being rude OOC! Oh no! Your sooo bad! Buh buh




. . .

Damn I hate such players, yes I do!

Actually, a few of these characters isn't that bad. Um... Gwenderlin, anyone?
But too much of these is bad indeed.
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Katalmach

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PostSubject: Re: The Thread for all the Shit we just couldn't let go of!   Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:58 am

I think what's key is to understand and appreciate the difference between "racism" and "prejudice".
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PostSubject: Re: The Thread for all the Shit we just couldn't let go of!   Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:58 am

Katalmach wrote:
I think what's key is to understand and appreciate the difference between "racism" and "prejudice".

Actually, I don't think it matters which it is. Both should be perfectly acceptable approaches to RP.
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Katalmach

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PostSubject: Re: The Thread for all the Shit we just couldn't let go of!   Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:35 am

Gurfang wrote:
Katalmach wrote:
I think what's key is to understand and appreciate the difference between "racism" and "prejudice".

Actually, I don't think it matters which it is. Both should be perfectly acceptable approaches to RP.

To a point. As long as the difference is appreciated and its well thought out either way. Prejudices tend to be better thought out than racism, as people sometimes fall back to racism is a crutch to supplement their character's RP.

A troll saying "I hate orcs because they are stupid savages" is, in my opinion, poor rp.
If a troll says "I despise orcs because they are loud and clumsy, and their pig-headed beliefs suppress my culture", thats much better.

Most of the tension and distrust between races that people *should* remember to work into their RP is based off prejudice, not true racism. Proper racism itself is something that could make for good RP, but its a completely different thing.
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Opathu

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PostSubject: Re: The Thread for all the Shit we just couldn't let go of!   Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:39 am

I hate orcs because they're stupid savages. [Title of Opathu's PhD thesis!]
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PostSubject: Re: The Thread for all the Shit we just couldn't let go of!   Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:56 am

Katalmach wrote:
Gurfang wrote:
Katalmach wrote:
I think what's key is to understand and appreciate the difference between "racism" and "prejudice".

Actually, I don't think it matters which it is. Both should be perfectly acceptable approaches to RP.

To a point. As long as the difference is appreciated and its well thought out either way. Prejudices tend to be better thought out than racism, as people sometimes fall back to racism is a crutch to supplement their character's RP.

A troll saying "I hate orcs because they are stupid savages" is, in my opinion, poor rp.
If a troll says "I despise orcs because they are loud and clumsy, and their pig-headed beliefs suppress my culture", thats much better.

Most of the tension and distrust between races that people *should* remember to work into their RP is based off prejudice, not true racism. Proper racism itself is something that could make for good RP, but its a completely different thing.

Actually, if you take a look at, for example, the British National Party, you will find that their reasons for being racist are along the lines of "I hate orcs because they are stupid savages" which is a far more realistic way for racism to be seen. It is, after all, nothing more than uninformed idiots or people looking for scapegoats to their own problems. Reason doesn't really come into it.
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Lyranne

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PostSubject: Re: The Thread for all the Shit we just couldn't let go of!   Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:41 am

I think the main difference between racism and prejudice is that the latter is not solely to do with creed and colour. You could easily play a prejudiced orc against Belves and any other race that seem to live in a high society with their only concern being what to have for breakfast (which according to some people, is the commonly RP's Belf type on this realm).
You can have a forsaken dislike a specific class of people/players, rather than an actual race. This is rarely touched upon, but could be awesome if done right. Forsaken should be almost apoplectic around light wielders, and tauren should be very angry around arcane according to certain sentiments (Taurens in fact are supposed to feel a certain rage at arcane being in close proximity due to their own innate closeness to nature - A few lore-philes have mentioned this, I should add).
People don't RP that because of certain complications, but I see it as no different avoiding mages as a Tauren as avoiding Belves as a troll. If you have fears about something, you'd tend not to be in close contact.

Personally, I prefer some thought going into how a prejudice is to be played out. Hearing a tauren walk past sin'dorei and just say "belf scum" is not, in my opinion, good RP. It wasn't intened to lead to RP, nor was it particularly meaningful considering the elves in question were quite regular sights around TB. I've seen the polor opposite though, with Belves randomly insulting other races in -their- cities. Sure it'd be done by some, but it should be only persued if you intend to RP a confrontation. The best type of racism RP I've seen is with those who've simply believed stereotypes and thus quote them as fact, or else almost seeing other races as peculiar curiosites.

The BNP are, along with their leader Nick Griffin all identical to look at. If I didn't know better, I'd swear that they were involved in cloning the very worst type of human (all the BNP pretty much are stocky white people with short hair, low intellect, and an aggressive sneer, with racist views and opinions based on nothing of merit. Stocky here being used as a polite term for having beer-guts - this does not mean that if I see someone who looks like this I immediatley label them as BNP, I should point out, merely that in photographs of the bunch of twats, this is how they appear). BNP are misinformed scum, pure and simple. There's no real comparison in WoW simply because there's no large organisation that are trying to take over the Horde/Alliance with the sole intent of subjugating all other races/making them leave. This could, if done right, be an incredibly good RP event, but I seriously doubt the right person would be able to pull it off without everyone simply /facepalm'ing.
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Opathu

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PostSubject: Re: The Thread for all the Shit we just couldn't let go of!   Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:49 am

If anyone really wants to understand "under the skin" how and why people like the BNP (and others) work, you should read my book (if you haven't already). Just click the web link.
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Katalmach

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PostSubject: Re: The Thread for all the Shit we just couldn't let go of!   Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:52 pm

Quote :

Actually, if you take a look at, for example, the British National Party, you will find that their reasons for being racist are along the lines of "I hate orcs because they are stupid savages" which is a far more realistic way for racism to be seen. It is, after all, nothing more than uninformed idiots or people looking for scapegoats to their own problems. Reason doesn't really come into it.

My point is that you can RP just being generally racist, but its not automatically "good rp" just because its being "controverisal".

I've seen plenty of trolls use the line I used as an example above. Likewise an orc can say "I hate trolls because they are blue and have ugly noses". And sure, both of these examples are things that you can choose to have your character feel and believe. But neither is supported by actual lore of the races, and neither is really constructive roleplay. It just comes across as something thats not thought out, an "insert personality here" move based on defining oneself on one's level of difference from others.

The "stupid ugly savages" approach to racist thought may work across faction, as I can easily see alliance characters thinking that about orcs and trolls etc. But within a faction... meh. I just think that if you aren't going to base your character's race relations on the *actual* cultural dissonance thats in play... what's the point?

Thinking of the Horde, there are lots and lots of genuine sources of tension in the interactions between the races. But all to often these things go completely ignored, while people who roleplay superficial, ill-thought out racism claim to be doing it "right". Thats people's right to roleplay as they wish, but I can't say I see any value in that approach.

To add to that, I'm largely in agreement with Lyranne's post.
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Rifki

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PostSubject: Re: The Thread for all the Shit we just couldn't let go of!   Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:36 pm

Snicka wrote:
Daidrax wrote:
Why not be racist in wow...? Its a racist game.. *shrug* (not that Im complaining :p )

The question is: why be not racist? Lots of players play their characters as very tolerant, liberal people; the question is, how they explain such an attitude?

I must say that, in the begining, Rifki had an uncontrolable fear and distrust for trolls, of any tribe. Yet, as he explored more of the world and dared leave Quel'thalas more often, he found that not all trolls were as horrible as the ones he had met, and his fear and distrust eventually faded away, because it wasn't given any reason to continue.

Rifki is not a racist because he, deep inside, is a pacifist. He'd rather really have everyone get along than fighting. Although I must admit, he still is a bit shaky around Forsaken and has a hard time understanding why some of them can wield the Holy Light.

Well.. Rifki has no problems healing a human or an orc.. Which may lead to some troubles as he can't bring himself to ignore anyone seeking aid, even if they are on the wrong side of the battle.

Oh and about the homossexuality thing, I think people should just shrug at whoever RPs that way and if their characters are uncomfortable or have anything against RP, they should just RP it. All my characters are bissexual and I have no problems RPing them that way. Yet it doesn't meant all I do is ERP, if it has to happen, just use the "Oh and we know what happened, let's do something else"... Unless I intend my character to run away with the other's possessions ^^'


And about the Forsaken wielding the Holy Light..? Truly, it can be possible as we see Sir Zeliek in Naxxramas being forced to attack his enemies with Holy bolts, still, maybe he is a special case? What do you think?
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Leaf

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PostSubject: Re: The Thread for all the Shit we just couldn't let go of!   Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:39 pm

Snicka wrote:
Daidrax wrote:
Why not be racist in wow...? Its a racist game.. *shrug* (not that Im complaining :p )

The question is: why be not racist? Lots of players play their characters as very tolerant, liberal people; the question is, how they explain such an attitude?
No concept of race. Naivety.

That's only me explaining why Leaf isn't a racist bitch.
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PostSubject: Re: The Thread for all the Shit we just couldn't let go of!   Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:26 pm

Quote :
And about the Forsaken wielding the Holy Light..? Truly, it can be possible as we see Sir Zeliek in Naxxramas being forced to attack his enemies with Holy bolts, still, maybe he is a special case? What do you think?

Sir Zeliek is not Forsaken
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PostSubject: Re: The Thread for all the Shit we just couldn't let go of!   Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:45 pm

Liontooth wrote:
Quote :
And about the Forsaken wielding the Holy Light..? Truly, it can be possible as we see Sir Zeliek in Naxxramas being forced to attack his enemies with Holy bolts, still, maybe he is a special case? What do you think?

Sir Zeliek is not Forsaken

True, but...

"Sir Zeliek, a paladin in life, so strong in his faith, that even in undeath, the power of the light still heeds his call, smiting his foes in battle."

...he is undead and surely the same should be true for Forsaken as for undead.
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Rifki

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PostSubject: Re: The Thread for all the Shit we just couldn't let go of!   Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:47 pm

Liontooth wrote:
Quote :
And about the Forsaken wielding the Holy Light..? Truly, it can be possible as we see Sir Zeliek in Naxxramas being forced to attack his enemies with Holy bolts, still, maybe he is a special case? What do you think?

Sir Zeliek is not Forsaken

I know he is not Forsaken, but is undead anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: The Thread for all the Shit we just couldn't let go of!   Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:17 pm

He is a special snowflake to the rule to make an "interesting" (quotes are on purpose) character...This does NOT mean that everyone can do it because an NPC with a specialist story can do it. Same way not everyone can claim they can travel in time because one character can do it (lol Rhonin). The forsaken even has a group called the light slayers, whos objective is to snub out users of the holy light...

The lore specificaly states that forsaken CAN NOT use the light. There really is no other way to read the passage.
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Rifki

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PostSubject: Re: The Thread for all the Shit we just couldn't let go of!   Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:30 pm

Mhm. So what do you think of people that RP undead that can use the Holy Light? I personally find it very, very weird as.. undeath itself is an abomination to the Holy Light, imo. Yet.. we must be tolerant if they give a proper excuse for it, right?
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