<The Dark Lady> - Warning

Hey guys, could I add you to my msn? Kinda feel it would be nice to keep in touch with you outside of the forums as well.

pm me ur details if you're happy to.

My details should be in my user profile. I prefer AIM to MSN, but use both.

Also, I'll keep an eye out for these guys. I have good experience in dealing with e-bullies as I've been targeted several times. I've learned by trial and error pretty much.

You have different kinds of e-bullies from my 4 years of experience online:

1. The obvious, and stupid ones. This kind is easy to ignore and laugh at, and might in rare cases go as far as buying an opposite faction account or level one himself to gank you. Verbally they will be weak, and it will take an equally weak mind to actually upset with their words. Rarely have any form of good grammar of vocabulary, and easy to piss off themselves. Usually lack skill at the game too, but will deny this and think they are the best in their own world, and will come up with a stupid excuse for any form of skill-rating they lack hugely in. (Arena rating, achievement, etc)

2. The persistant, more smart ones. This is the kind you are dealing with. They easily develop a grudge for a player online and will do anything to make that player feel bad. A simple /ignore wont work here - counter-action, such as getting the community or GM's to help, is required. Will use more clever tricks and will oftenly use official rules against those they hate. Are usually also easily pissed off, can be good players, can not be, that doesn't really matter here. (Had a dealing with one of these a few days ago with Menace too, some guy from US got a player of us banned for saying the n-word somewhere. He's a rather.. annoying guy.)

3. The lollers. Impossible to crush. Think thaya, think Doode. If you're getting bullied by these - you'll have a hard time. However, they're usually very chill, and will very rarely actually hate someone and really bully them. They just do it for personal pleasure and never too long. Easily bored, and will go away if you ignore them. Are usually also good players and focus on theorycrafting and actually playing. Nearly impossible to get an emotional reaction out of, and you'll only get yourself harmed by trying that. :p

4. The cunning ones, and usually cowards. Will provoke people subtly and rarely draw attention to themselves, they'll try get others to do what they want and provoke dramas, usually also by turning people against each other and take joy out of these. Done either for personal fun or out of e-hate (srs bsnss). Are usually the most clever ones, and know how to get to specific people, and try do this without actually being involved, or as less as possible. Usually quite disturbing people. Kinda how Tivak RP'd, I think :p

Basically.. yeah concerning advise Opathu told exactly what to do. Don't tell me why I put my personal opinion of types of e-bullies.. Bored I guess.

On a side note I can't wait to see Xari's excuse for turning male if he ever returns to RP.

"Well...I was the cruel mistress until The Lich King decided I would be better with meat and two veg"

Was always a drag queen?

((Xari, a remarkably sane post from you there -- I think work is doing wonders for you! ^^))

Opathu wrote:

((Xari, a remarkably sane post from you there -- I think work is doing wonders for you! ^^))

Opathu sneaked into my brain and snatched this from me.

Leaf wrote:

Opathu wrote:

((Xari, a remarkably sane post from you there -- I think work is doing wonders for you! ^^))

Opathu sneaked into my brain and snatched this from me.

Which is interesting since he's a big fat warlock and you're the Gnogue, expert at sneaking and snatching.

Damn him.... he snatched my character too!

If I ever return to RP the male version wont have existed :p

And thanks Oppy.. But even if I say so myself I am smarter than I pretend to be on internet forums usually lol :p

Xariandra wrote:

And thanks Oppy.. But even if I say so myself I am smarter than I appear, but can't be arsed on internet forums lol :p

Fixt.

Or that.

I would hope that Archnazg and the rest of HOS will never bow down to the likes of TDL and their immature members. Please Arch, do not move or change character names, stick with SSL and HOS... You are key players in our RP community!

Secondly, I would like to offer up advice if TDL goes too far: there are three civilly actionable remedies that may be of use to those who are targets of TDL's machinations.

1: Assault - Historically misunderstood in the civil area of law, Assault is actionable when the claimant is afraid of the threat of imminent physical harm. Thus any of you who have been targetted by TDL and have had phone numbers or addresses found out, then any threat to you may be actionable.

2: Defamation/Privacy - The publication of any addresses OR phone numbers without your consent IS ACTIONABLE (including their, our or WOWEU's forums). You can get an order from the court for them to cease and desist from publishing, so long as there is no public interest (which there shouldn't be, if you're a normal citizen). In addition, although under Smith vs ADVFN(2008) defamation via message boards is considered slander, if anyone's professional reputation is harmed by the actions of TDL, and this can be proven, then a defamation action is available.

3: Intentional Infliction of Emotional Harm - The biggie... firstly they must have acted intentionally or recklessly (without regard to the claimant), secondly their conduct must be unconscionable, verging on extreme; thirdly their actions must be the cause of distress and finally, the distress is severe, and a direct result of TDL's conduct. So just being pissed off will not count.


Granted this may be seen as overkill, but people must never bow down to people trying to disrupt their personal, private time and should always be open to the idea of legal recourse. Remember, always consult a lawyer before acting!

Yours,

Sandokall/Tsurotu/Joe

Surely your tag should read "Sandokall<QC>"

Lawyers shall inherit the earth. Because we've been messing with your wills.]

/Goes back to writing up his Company Law notes..
//Ain't no lawyer yet!

Hi mate,

Sounds like you might be ok There are several of us here also playing games, RPGs etc for more than 20 years too. Yes, it appears that a feud between former and current HoS members got out of hand. It also seems some quite despicable things have been done by certain Dark Lady members. I cannot comment on how or whether other people responded in kind. I don't know for sure, just that I run a guild myself; and I don't put up with any of this shit. My guild, for example, is almost all people of 24+ age, several of us in our 40s, and we don't have anything like these problems at all.

So, anyway, you'll find most of us here are friendly, mature and good community folks: if approached on that level. In that spirit, and if you honestly know nothing about all this, I would welcome you.

cheers,

Opathu

OPPY! NEW ONE FOR YOU TO BLOOD!

Greetings, bien venue etc and welcome to Legion.

I'm currently coming to the end of around 6 weeks away from the game (kept in touch on this forum but pretty much abandoned the SSL forum) but from what I have gathered a lot of the stuff appears to have happened either on the SSL forum or with a small group of people acting like idiots, with Misca seemingly standing by and smiling from the sidelines.

Now granted, this could be a bit of an exaggeration (after all, this is the internet!) but Arch and Kadris haven't got a reputation for that, so I'm not convinced. Also, Kadris has been saying that there are screenshots of some of their actions, which would at least support the things happening.

It may just be that the rest of the guild is blameless and have been kept in the dark about the origins of this (like the guild's name being a rip off of HoS, chosen by someone who left/was kicked from the guild). Could I suggest asking for Misca's view on things and see what he says. After all, this might be something that can be ended amicably (though given how far it has gone that is unlikely).

But all this aside, welcome to Legion. Don't forget to check out the Chatbox to find us there!

Twinkletoe, I can assure you that everything HoS claims that TDL guild has done is true. I´ve been there, and many people that don´t belong to HoS seen it...
We have many many screenshots that prove we are right.. so I can only advise you to get out of that guild, if you don´t want to be put in one bag with people who insult and harrass others...

I´m NOT saying every member of TDL is an idiot... because there might be some, like you, who had nothing to with it..
By this I´m not trying to encourage you to leave TDL, because I want to ...ahem steal their members.. I´m just saying it for your sake, because I don´t think people who haven´t done anything should be punished too...

<The Disillusioned> are recruiting!!

It’s a dog eat dog world! A world where spiteful, barefaced lying cnuts rule. A world where The Man will prefer to have paying barefaced lying cnuts as opposed to honest paying clients.

Tired of paying your hard earned gold to be abused? Join us!

We’re an RP/PVP/PVE guild and accept anyone who’s had enough.

All applications through that door over there… yes, that’s it. The one that says ‘exit’.

See you on the other side.

I can well understand The frustration Kadris and the rest of the house must be feeling.

As i never log into trade channels (precisely because this kind of idocy runs rampant there) i have missed a lot of this first hand, however i have seen, from being present whilst other people are playing, that members of the Dark Lady guild seem to bask in some kind of warm fuzzy glow while they deliberately goad poeple.

I have also witnessed this behaiviour of simply standing near/ following members of the house and making inflammatory comments. Only to respond when challenged with things like 'Oh...we're just standing here talking...its not aimed at you at all...how arrogant you are to think so.' or 'we're on patrol, we don't mind if you walk the same way as us...'

Now, most folks seem to be under the impression that if you have screenshots and chatlogs, times and dates of the harrassment, the GM's can act upon it. For whatever reason, the HoS has discovered that this does not seem to be the case.

I'm now somewhat baffled as to how one -is- supposed to report harrassment of this kind.

I have to hand it to those guys, they really know how to play the system. The farce of a recruitment thread shows that. I've never, in the whole time i've been playing WoW, seen somebody manage to get all the posts they don't like removed from a thread the way TDL have.

It's simple.

Don't respond.

Collate all your information.

Report to the email address given on WoW Europe website, where you can give GM feedback.

These guys (TDL) are simply more clever at using this system than some of those they have aggrieved. Guarantee you that is what is giving them a virtual hard-on: a sense of power.

Of course, I think Archie has learned a lesson the hard way about how to run a guild, the kind of structures and rules you follow, etc. Best IMO is you run small casual guilds like mine, full of mature folks.

Opathu
Slaying Internet Trollz Since Way Before When©

Yes, I agree with Opathu.

You must use the email address, the in-game system must surely not go to RP-specific GMs, and although this harrassment is not really RP grounded, the issue itself revolves around roleplaying. What may look like innocent roleplaying to a layman, or someone not used to WoW RP might be the sort of behavior we see from TDL - as people ahve said before me, playing the system.

Don't worry though, and don't give in. They'll slip up and the lifetime ban will be all the sweeter for it

I would like to ask everyone not from HoS... If you happen to have any material that proves TDL has been harrassing people (screens, logs.. whatever), PLEASE send it to me to daidrax@gmail.com as soon as you can, so we can finaly put it all together to get some valid proof... This realy has to stop.

More importantly, tell people not to retaliate on the forums or in game. No point getting yourself banned.

Don't send the information to the GM email address *until* you have it all together in one place.

Also, before sending *anything*, read the Blizzard terms and conditions and find the areas (which I already linked) which detail harassment, etc. Then relate every incident to those conditions. i.e. "this happened on this date, as you can see it was a contravention of your rule about sexual harassment" etc.

Now, you also need to be honest and find out which of your friends have *also* broken these same rules in their dealings with this guild. It seems that it's mostly a small group of players, whose names you know, are involved. If they have managed to get some of you banned; or not been banned themselves; it means either the GMs have misunderstood their own rules; or else you guys have *also* contravened them.

Good luck.

Noted, Opa. We've started bringing together our info on them

Opa is smart *nods wisely*