Blizzcon Discussion Thread

omg blizzard stole my idea!

Cross Server LFG

* This will let you PUG 5-man instances and search for groups through multiple servers.
* It will come with its own reward systems. If you're the leader of a PUG and complete the dungeon succesfully you will be rewarded.
* It should be out for patch 3.3.0.


well not exactly 80man raids but still cross server!


and

Mage

* Night Elves Mages have been added because it sounded pretty cool to have Elves using arcane when they shouldn't be anymore.

they know they shouldnt but they still add it because it sounded pretty cool

Shouldn't come as a surprise really. Night Elves, and the world for that matter, would need any help they can get to ensure survival in the face of everything that's reigning down on them.

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Screw lore. It's fun.

.. and feels good?

Aren't there arcane wielding night elves in Dire Maul anyway? And if so, what will happen to this instance, if arcane is now accepted (albeit possibly still frowned upon) by the night elf populace?

Perhaps night elf mages are like human warlocks - the human race despises fel magic and hunt all kinds of demons, however, warlocks still exist. Maybe there are night elves that wield the arcane in secret, hated by the population of Darnassus.

Anyway, I am not surprised with the new races: the Alliance gets a race of great size and physical strength (to balance orcs, trolls, tauren), while the Horde gets a race that is small in size but advanced in technology (to balance gnomes).

Nelves with arcane magic..

But..

But..

Lore says that if a night elf uses arcane magic his physical appearance will change.. the change only taking two weeks to happen..

Basing my comments on what I've found on Wowwiki:

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World of Warcraft: Cataclysm is the upcoming third expansion for World of Warcraft and was officially announced on August 21, 2009 at BlizzCon 2009. The majority of the expansion content takes place in drastically reforged Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms.

No date set yet, as far as I can see.

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An ancient evil lies dormant within Deepholm, the domain of earth in the Elemental Plane.

Hidden away in a secluded sanctuary, the corrupted Dragon Aspect Deathwing has waited, recovering from the wounds of his last battle against Azeroth and biding his time until he can reforge the world in molten fire.

Soon, Deathwing the Destroyer will return to Azeroth, and his eruption from Deepholm will sunder the world, leaving a festering wound across the continents. As the Horde and Alliance race to the epicenter of the cataclysm, the kingdoms of Azeroth will witness seismic shifts in power, the kindling of a war of the elements, and the emergence of unlikely heroes who will rise up to protect their scarred and broken world from utter devastation.

Sounds good, goes well with the trailer, let's hope that they hold to it and deliver what should be an epic bit of lore.

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Level cap increased to 85.

Agreed with all who have commented on the grind, having only 5 levels is far kinder on the brain and, hopefully, the life that we all aspire to having!

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Zones are destroyed in lava in Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms. The Barrens has been split into two, and is full of canyons of lava. Wetlands is destroyed, Ashenvale hit as well. The Maelstrom churns.

Love this, makes world PVP in all map areas a possibility, at least for the first few months of the expansion.

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New race for the Alliance: Worgen
o Classes: death knight, hunter, mage, priest, rogue, druid, warlock and warrior.[1]

New race for the Horde: Goblins
o Classes: death knight, shaman, hunter, mage, priest, rogue, warlock and warrior.[1]

I can remember saying a while ago that the Worgen should be Alliance with Goblins being the most likely race to join the Horde, so it's nice to see this being done. The lore appears to be a bit sloppy over the DK stuff, but seeing as goblins are wherever other races are it's not inconceivable that they could be caught (though not necessarily of the same clan of Goblins) by Arthas et al. A simple lore twist would be to say that if the Goblins are to join the Horde then they must accept any and all Goblin DK's, regardless of clan origins. Worgen DK's are a bit easier to create lore for, as they have been near Silverpine, which has been infested by Scourge minions for ages. It's not too big a step to think that the Scourge kidnapped some worgen and then converted them into DK's. Certainly, with both races I'd say it's easier to explain than it is to think up a reason for Draenei DK's!

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New Race / Class combinations. They will be explained in-game[2][3].

Those that make sense are:
Dwarf shaman (see Wildhammer lore), Human hunter (since when have humans not hunted stuff?), Blood Elf warrior (poor buggers haven't had an army since they were brought into the game!), Orc mage (you have warlocks, so it makes sense that you get mages too) and Troll druid (Night Elf common ancestry and all that).

Those that make no sense are Tauren priest (since when did the cows love the light or Elune?), Tauren paladin (see priest comment), Gnome priest (again, when have they ever followed "The Light"?) and Dwarf mage (Dwarf and arcane magic?).

Those that could make sense if they are done right are Undead hunter (have to be done in a way that gives a reason for an animal to stick around a skeleton other than to gnaw at it's bones!) and Night Elf mage (as has been commented, they could be the Night Elf version of Human and Orc warlocks, but it does need to be dealt with properly).

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Classic zones forever changed by the Cataclysm. The changes will be made available to all players regardless of expansion purchase.

This is good, but also a shame that people will never experience true vanilla WoW as the level up.

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Ability to fly anywhere due to the Azeroth revamp.

Should have been done when they did TBC. Should have been done when they did WotLK. 'Bout bloody time it was done!!!

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Guild advancement system, which includes guild leveling, talents, achievements, and accessories.

Interesting to see how this will be done and how it will benefit guilds and players.

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Revamped character progression via the Paths of the Titans, Archaeology, the new secondary profession, and Ancient glyphs.

Will this mean a 4th talent branch?

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Rated battlegrounds, an alternative way to earn arena points

I don't care about arena, but will this mean that PVP gear will be more easily bought?

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Ragnaros was banished in the Molten Core, but has now returned to burn Nordrassil.

Decent enough story for his return, hope they flesh it out better when it actually comes around.

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Malfurion Stormrage has returned from the Emerald Dream to help defend Hyjal.

So he's actually around as an NPC? Will he be neutral/friendly to both factions?

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Profession level cap raised to 525 and will be named Illustrious <Profession Title>.

I guess this means that the final expansion will see us attaining 750 on professions? That's going to be one hell of a grind to start a prof from scratch!

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New ability for Jewelcrafters, Engineers, Blacksmiths, Leatherworkers and Tailors called "Reforging"

I assume this means that we can break up stuff and re-use it. Does this include the gems that are attached to gear too?

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Stats armor penetration, attack power, block value,defense, mp5, and spell power are being removed from the game, with their effects being rolled into the remaining stats.

I guess that theorycrafters and raiders will be rubbing their hands at something new to work out! Where does this stand with the difference between PVP and PVE gear though?

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Deathwing, formerly Neltharion the Earth-Warder, confirmed as the principal villain of the expansion.

So we will finally kill him off?

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Thrall, whose role will be changing, possibly to relinquish command of the Horde.

So not confirming the Guardian rumour, but doing nothing to squash it either.

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Garrosh Hellscream, possibly the new leader of the Horde.

Makes for more fun and reckless Horde.

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Varian Wrynn, who leads the Alliance after the Cataclysm.

How is this different from before?

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Malfurion Stormrage, who returns to prevent Mount Hyjal from being destroyed.

So will he be found in the new zone, or will he be in Darnassus, telling Staghelm that he's a pillock?

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Brann Bronzebeard, up to his old tricks as leader of the expedition into the newly-uncovered Uldum region.

By "old tricks" I take it this means he's been searching around for the place and finally finds it?

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Genn Greymane, King of Gilneas, who helps administer a cure for the worgen curse to his now-transformed people.

New faction boss to kill?

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Nefarian, also known as Blackwing/Victor Nefarius, son of Deathwing, who survived and retreated further into Blackrock Spire.

New heroic BWL? New instance and BWL has a new end boss?

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Ragnaros, who remains alive to challenge the world in Mount Hyjal, and later in his own elemental fire plane.

So we are likely to have at least 2 fights with him in the expansion?

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The Twilight Hammer cult is a major player in the new expansion; its minions are revealed to be working for Deathwing.

Cool that they are getting a better place in the story, though it's a shame that they mean so little at the moment that this could be met with apathy.

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It was originally expected that Queen Azshara would be a significant player in the expansion, but game designer Tom Chilton confirmed at the 2009 Blizzcon convention (in the Q&A session of the "Raids and Dungeons" panel) that Azshara and the city of Nazjatar would not be featured in this expansion; potentially this leaves her as a major focus of a future expansion. Blizzard does, however, list her amongst the featured players in Cataclysm, so it is possible we will feel her presence throughout the expansion, even if she does not herself make an appearance.

I guess Siheld is happy with this.

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New zones

Kalimdor

* Mount Hyjal (78-82)
* Uldum (83-84)

Eastern Kingdoms

* Alliance Gilneas (1-15)
* Twilight Highlands (84-85)
* Tol Barad (84-85) (Outdoor PvP)

The Great Sea

* Horde Lost Isles (1-15)
* Sunken City of Vashj'ir (78-82)

South Seas

* Horde Kezan (1-15)

Elemental Plane

* Deephome (82-84)

Azeroth zones affected by the Cataclysm
Mount Kajaro erupted on Kezan due to the Cataclysm
Kalimdor

* Darkshore: Auberdine is destroyed, and the very land torn asunder. The Alliance relocates to a new camp in the Northern end of the zone, while the Horde sets up camp to the South. Shatterspear Village, previously a closed zone, becomes an accesible subzone.
* Ashenvale: Heavier deforestation around the Warsong Lumber Camp causes the orcs to encroach on Silverwind Refuge. Zoram'gar Outpost is reinforced with black iron, similar to the Horde outposts in Northrend. Astranaar becomes the victim of air assaults launched by the Horde.
* Azshara: Azshara has been claimed by the goblins (likely as their second zone after the Lost Isles), where they have established a quarry to cut stone for the construction of their towns. The zone is also now directly linked with Orgrimmar.
* Orgrimmar: The trailer showed evidence of the front gates being reinforced with metal (like Warsong Hold). What metal is used is unknown, but at BlizzCon 2009 Tom Chilton said specifically "if you recognize the black iron... its from somewhere"[5], hinting that the metal has a specific origin or just reinforcing that we saw this type of architecture used by Garrosh in Northrend. Possibilities include dark iron, saronite or just normal iron.
* The Barrens: The Barrens is split in two by great fissures in the land, spouting fiery rivers of lava. The Northern Barrens is a level 10-20 zone, while the Southern Barrens is intended for higher level players. Portions of the Barrens have grown lush thanks to the work of the druid Naralex. The passage into Mulgore has been reinforced by the tauren, with high walls and a gate. The Alliance will be moving into the southern Barrens, constructing several towers and burning down Camp Taurajo.[6]
* Stonetalon Mountains: Eruptions decimate the landscape, spreading the flames of the Charred Vale even further. The goblins have cut through the mountains, forming a valley that leads into Ashenvale.
* Desolace: Once a barren wasteland, the Cataclysm has caused a rift to form, allowing water to flood in from the coast and bring life back to the region. However, the region is now being invaded by demons, including shivarra.

Eastern Kingdoms

* Undercity: The terrain in and arround the Ruins of Lordaeron has been remodeled to accommodate flying mounts.
* Hillsbrad Foothills: Southshore is now possibly "lost".[7]
* Wetlands: Heavily affected by Deathwing's destructive exit from Grim Batol, with the Twilight Highlands now opened to the East.
* Silverpine Forest: The Greymane Wall has been destroyed by the Cataclysm, opening up the passage to Gilneas.
* Stormwind City: The castles and terrain surrounding Stormwind City have been remodeled to accomodate flying mounts. The Gilnean worgen have been assigned their own district.

Love all the new stuff here. Especially like the stuff with Ashenvale. Interesting that the Alliance have burned Camp Taurajo, rather than Crossroads. I see Ilverpine being an interesting PVP area, especially in the south. More remodelling for Stormwind.

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Dungeons and raids
List of the Dungeons in Cataclysm that will ship with the game

The developers announced at BlizzCon 2009 that they intend for Cataclysm to ship with the most end-game content yet seen in an expansion.

* The Skywall
o Unnamed level 80-82 dungeon
o Unnamed raid
* Deepholm
o Unnamed level 81-83 dungeon
* Sunken City of Vashj'ir
o Abyssal Maw, level 81-83 dungeon
o Unnamed level 82-84 dungeon
o Unnamed raid
* Uldum
o Halls of Origination, level 83 dungeon
o Lost City of Tol'vir, level 84-85 dungeon
* Blackrock Mountain
o Blackrock Caverns, level 85 dungon
o Blackwing Descent, raid inspired by Blackwing Lair against Nefarian
* Grim Batol
o Unnamed level 85 dungeon
o Unnamed raid against Deathwing
* The Firelands
o Raid against Ragnaros
* New old-world dungeons gaining 5-player Heroic mode
o Deadmines
o Shadowfang Keep

The fact that Grim Batol and Uldum are in is excellent. The heroic versions of DM and SFK mean potential for PVP in SF and WF, which should be good.

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PvP
Battlegrounds

Battle for Gilneas City[8] will be a new battleground in which you take control of the city by taking control of the most districts in the battleground.

Battlegrounds starting with Cataclysm will be rated, like arenas, and will provide the same rewards as arenas.

Interesting that this is a BG, I wonder what the Worgen capital will be?

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New arenas are planned to be added with the expansion.

Don't care about arenas, though this is not a surprising thing to do.

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Tol Barad will be an outdoor PvP zone much like Wintergrasp. Unlike Wintergrasp however, Tol Barad will also be the main daily quest hub in Cataclysm. By taking control of the Tol Barad Prison, players will gain access to additional, very profitable daily quests.

So, as has been said before, it's WG meets Ganklas.

Overall, I am very excited to see this done. I just hope they pay a bit more attention to the Lore before they make it happen.

I dont think there will be any new capitals.

Worgen get added to Stormwind and goblins get added to Orgrimmar or something.

munechi wrote:

i dont think there will be any new capitals.

worgen get added to stormwind and goblins get added to orgrimmar or something.

i don't think there will be any capitals in munechi's posts either.

((Sorry, I could not resist))

Snicka wrote:

munechi wrote:

I dont think there will be any new capitals.

Worgen get added to Stormwind and Goblins get added to Orgrimmar or something.

i don't think there will be any capitals in munechi's posts either.

((Sorry, I could not resist))

There were capitals in my messege *nods*

Also I thought about editing your post to leave out the capitals, but that wasn't necessary (in the first line atleast)

Furion Stormrage will be aiding from within the Emerals Dream, so I doubt if we will see him and Dwarven Mages and Gnome priests; We have priests in Gnomeregan.. but else you could say they learned eachother the art..
Draenei DK's made more sense then Worgen and Goblin Dk's!

One thing that does concern me is that with flying mounts now allowable in EK and Kalimdor, what's to stop level 85's completely stopping low level areas from being effective levelling areas? It's bad enough now with some days STV being impossible to quest in, but at least you're of a moderate level. Imagine a level 20 region with 85's readily able to hack you to pieces, then fly about when friends come along. Great potential for world PvP, but a dire situation for those who just want to quest.

@Marius: From what Malin posted a while back, Arcane is supposed to shape any users and change their appearence, yet the game's lore seems not to accept this. I imagine that'll be Blizzard's excuse (and as I mentioned, there have been arcane Night Elves in Dire Maul, and that's been in the lore of WoW for a good few years now).

The new proff cap is damn scary. One wonders if the 80-85 system is a success, if they'll integrate it to those before, doing away with the grinding aspect of levelling, and instead rewarding players for following the narrative. Though with this, one would also hope that they give the player decisions on how to complete them. I really hate that if you quest in Howling Fjords, you'll contribute to Wrathgate more directly than if you quest in the Borean Tundra, and there's no way to really place your allegience with anyone. Sure, we're all part of the Horde/Alliance, but how many of us would really take orders from the Forsaken of Northrend, or Garrosh? (My warlock would, as too will some of my other not-so-nice characters, but others are more in tune with the older horde sentiments, and certainly prefer Thrall's mentality to the more brutish orders apparent in Northrend).

I don't get the DK thing either. If Blizzard want to admit that adding a new class when they did was a mistake, they could treat them like any other, but I guess they feel they -have- to allow all races to be DK's. Probably because they know many want a high level of x race to put in nifty gear, or else use the racials in PvP, and feel that DK's are the perfect class for this. as it stands, the logical thing they could have done with DK's is not force their race to decide the faction, but rather the class. It seems silly that such powerful warriors would remain affilliated with the faction that would play host to so many of their old allies (If I came back from the dead, and had commited such horrendous crimes, the last thing I'd want is to see my family and friends "h-hey... Yeah, it was just a phase").

I don't get the arguments made about DKs here. As I've said, there is plenty of scope for Goblins and Worgen to have been captured prior to them being made playable. In fact, given the existence of the Worgen comes from the Wolfcult I'd say that you could quite easily have Worgen DKs. Sure, they would not be Gilnean Worgen, but if Gilneas is not going to be a city that is useable and the Worgen become like the Gnomes, only in Stormwind, then surely they would be a Worgen Exile community, not purely a Gilnean one.
Goblins, again as I said before, are not exactly a new race and have been known to be all over the place. The base in the south of Storm Peaks is just one prime example of how far Goblins will go. It seems perfectly reasonable for the Scourge to have captured and converted Goblins to DKs in the past.
Draenei, on the other hand, arrived from another world and would have little reason to go to any of the areas that the Scourge have infected. They were not around in Azeroth in the Third War. And finally, they are dedicated to the Light by their very nature. Now, I can also create reasons for why they are fine to have as DKs, as my Alliance account has a Draenei DK who I roleplay as a twisted paladin (well, I did when I used that account!).

@ Siheld - Gnome priests would only make sense if they went the whole way and allowed Gnome paladins too. Simply to have priests and say "Dwarves rubbed off on them" (and not in the way that Opathu would want to imagine!!!) is silly and lazy.

I agree with you Gurf, but it is an explanation!

Siheld wrote:

I agree with you Gurf, but it is an explanation!

Yes, it is an explanation. It's a crap explanation though.

Lore wise a lot of shit hasn't made any sense, at least not perfectly. A lot of people argue about Gnome's physical size when spouting opinions about them wearing plate. There's possibilities for anything once you start to accept it, at least a little bit.
Gnomes could've invented engineering mock-up to enable the plate/mail armor to be practically weightless or at least be as heavy (for the wearer) as leather. Some gnomes could have been genetically superior (in terms of physical strength) fighters; i.e. Gnomes born to be Warriors and wear heavy armor, hence being more dedicated to pursuing that for the simple reason of being overly proud of that "destiny". Some Gnomes could've sacrificed other traits by undertaking certain Alchemy experiments to gain that strength. Plenty of reasons to toy around with.

If anything lore should be given a chance to evolve. Things change.
Best quote about this I could find was "What has lore go to do with it? Lore is history. Not rules."

If anything another quote will explain ANYTHING that seems odd.

"Desperate affairs require desperate remedies."
Horatio Nelson, British admiral & naval hero (1758 - 1805)

I always saw the gnome warrior argument not being about wearing plate, but more the simple fact they're tiny and would weigh next to nothing. Suspending disbelief is one thing, but picturing a gnome tanking whilst a male Draenei Priest is standing there and healing is a surreal image and it's very hard to shake that of a Gnome charging into a dragon (say Sapphiron) and not just being swatted away and yelling "Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep!". But then. This is true of all races, when you talk about scale.

I think the -main- reason people have trouble with plate-wearing gnomes is because it's hard to shake the Hobbit/DnD/other references to little people. In those circumstances, they're more often associated with being good at hiding/stealth or even with gadgets and words.

From what I could tell when I went on AD the other night, Draenei are considered a joke by much of the Alliance RP community - especially female ones. They seem intolerent of them as serious RP characters, and I think this is the main reason there's the gripe about DK Draenei.

Gnome and Worgen DK are only seen as unlikely because currently the game shows none of either. If they add a few npcs, no one can complain, but right now it looks as though the logic is that as soon as they join the factions, their worlds will get worse, not better.
There's also the fact that the Worgen that aren't from the Gilnea are usually affiliated with Aragul, which would be an odd idea that they were a son of aragul (for example) then became a DK, then were freed of the latter curse, but not the former. Surely their affiliation would return to Aragul, rather than Gilnea (who if not from Gilnea would not be welcome anyway I imagine, regardless of being a Worgen). Of course, Blizzard aren't about to lt us play as a Son of Aragul, so when did these Worgen get out of Gilnea to be turned, when the gate is only being opened after the Horde/Alliance have accepted (begrudgingly) DK's from the current faction races (meaning that the Ebon Hold events have happened already, so how is the Goblin/Worgen phasing DK situation going to work?).

Blizzard have suggested that the phasing for the worgen will be from another time and not something that happens in the present.

Quintilius wrote:

Blizzard have suggested that the phasing for the worgen will be from another time and not something that happens in the present.

That, plus Goblins have been around and in the world for longer than they have been a playable race.

As to the Arugal side of the curse, surely the whole thing about the Gilneans is that they were infected by the same curse? Also, with the the DK freeing stuff, let's not forget that whilst they are free of control they are still not completely free of the curse as they are still "alive". The same could be true of Worgen, that they are free of control by Arugal but not free of being hairy.

Blizzard have neglected the lore behind Worgen DKS to appease the players that do not give a damn and what a werewolf death knight.

My opinion this is something that we, as players, will have to work out on our own to make it believable.

I think someone said that the Gilneas events happen in the past so...Seeing as Icecrown opens in the new expansion and Mr Arthas is looking for some new soldiers to battle the bouncing heroes I guess it would not be surpising that he would grab some worgen that happen to be in the area. However these worgens can not say they have done the starting quests for the DK due to time and place fuck ups.

Liontooth wrote:

Blizzard have neglected the lore behind Worgen DKS to appease the players that do not give a damn and what a werewolf death knight.

My opinion this is something that we, as players, will have to work out on our own to make it believable.

I think someone said that the Gilneas events happen in the past so...Seeing as Icecrown opens in the new expansion and Mr Arthas is looking for some new soldiers to battle the bouncing heroes I guess it would not be surpising that he would grab some worgen that happen to be in the area. However these worgens can not say they have done the starting quests for the DK due to time and place fuck ups.

And this is where people seem to want to limit their rp. It's like saying that all DK's have to be from the Ebon Blade, which IMO is very restrictive and a bit silly. Sure, the majority will say that, but surely there are possibilities for more than just that. Likewise with the Worgen, just because you've had to do the quests to get the character out into the rest of the world, it doesn't mean that you have to RP a character that way after you've done it.

Gurfang wrote:

And this is where people seem to want to limit their rp. It's like saying that all DK's have to be from the Ebon Blade, which IMO is very restrictive and a bit silly. Sure, the majority will say that, but surely there are possibilities for more than just that. Likewise with the Worgen, just because you've had to do the quests to get the character out into the rest of the world, it doesn't mean that you have to RP a character that way after you've done it.

I don't think it's people limiting their RP when the only mentioned monolith that was freed is the Ebon Hold. There're no others mentioned, and nor do we get a choice on where to start our Death Knights. Sure you can avoid saying you're from there, but it's pretty hard to say you're from somewhere else, when the game seems to not want to give you that option (and if there is a list of liberated srtrongholds, please someone type it up so we have a rough idea).

Also, depending on how immersed you are with your character, quests can shape them. For example, after doing the succubus questline for my warlock, I had what last vestige of innocence may have remained die away. The same is true of the DK quests. After the one where you kill an old friend, I realised that emotionally, I couldn't play a character immune to those effects. Your own personality is more limiting than the retraints placed upon you by game mechanics.

None of you have mentioned that there are plenty of worgens present in Northrend. They ninja'd my RP surname, those bastards, but they are there nontheless.

If people find themselves restricted by leaving out something that should not make sense in lore then they lack imagination to be honest.

The Death Knights have been out for a while yet none of us has seen any worgen Death Knights have we? Now they are just supposed to appear and be there the whole time? That is more silly in my opinion.

The lore and timeline is more important than people let on...It is the history that makes the story after all.