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 Some little titbits and facts about transgenderism and gender dysphoria.

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Lyranne

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PostSubject: Some little titbits and facts about transgenderism and gender dysphoria.   Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:42 pm

As many know, I'm a pre-op male-to-female who has for much of my life known this about myself. It's not something that is as plain as "Oh, I wish I had breasts and no penis" though that is a part of it. Rather, it's a case of how the brain reacts and thinks, how the individual feels about themself and their own identity.

Now, you might well wonder why I'm posting this here, and particularly in a seemingly unprovoked manner. Well, it's because of stupidity on Television and the general ignorance of some that I felt compelled to give my account of what it's like.

Firstly, the terminology:

Transvestite: A person who likes to dress up as the opposite gender.

Fetishistic transvestite: A person who dressed up as the opposite gender for sexual arousal.

Transexual/Transgender: A person who feels they were born the wrong gender. Now, I say 'feel' because that's the loosest I can be. Many of us 'know' we're the wrong gender. We know from a very young age, and the frustration and confusion of having the wrong body exacerbates the general dysphoria associated with such a condition.

Gender Dysphoria: As mentioned above, this is most commonly associated with transgender and it basically means a feeling of great despair and self loathing at what are. The lack of control, or feeling in synch with your own body is alienating and also terrifying. The fear of standing out, or even approaching family about it is also very daunting.

Of course it differs for some, and many people who have feelings like this either learn to 'deal' with it, or else it fades with time. Others, like myself, the feeling grows as we do. When I was six and first aware that I was the wrong gender, I simply hoped/assumed that it was normal and would either go away or else puberty would solve it. I also wished and prayed that I would wake up the correct gender (which of course never happened) Alas, puberty made things so very much worse for me, as I was even further from where I felt I should be. Again this differs, and some young children will find they no longer feel the same concern. Others might start to question their identity at this age, also.

Now, my reason for this is two-fold:

Yesterday, on that particularly repugnant 'Jeremy Kyle Show' He and the father of a transgendered child both showed their ignorance, as did much of the audience. 'Ben' as he wished to be known was born a girl and knew from a young age they were a boy. They saw themself as one, and even live as Ben with their freinds calling him such. His parents obviously feel confused, but also heavil in denial and hope it's a 'phase'. The thing that annoyed me most though was not the naivé attitudes, but rather their opinion that at seventeen, Ben shouldn't have surgery/hormones 'Because they haven't lived'.
He tried to convey his feelings about this, but faltered, mostly through nerves and frustration. What he was trying to say (I feel) is that he doesn't feel he can live until his gender is rectified (in a manner of speaking). His father, and Jeremy Kyle were both going on about real world experience being important before such a decision be made, not realising how damaging that can actually be. I'm nearly twenty-seven now, and only told my family last year. I should be starting hormones soon, but due to the time frames, will most likely not have completed surgery and hormones until I'm nearing thirty. For me, that's a tragic loss of my youth and teens. I never wanted to be a boy, nor did I envision myself as an adult male.
To all intents and purposes, I still feel like a teenager, waiting for puberty to set me on course. Ben is in the situation that even when he's going through puberty and his body is moving away from what he envisioned, he -still- feels as if he's male. This is what they should be looking at, and it's what is so hard to put into words.
It's incredibly difficult to convery the frustration and confusion that go with it all, and I know from speaking to others that it's rarely any different.

They also insisted on calling Ben a gay girl, because of him having a girlfriend. What they again failed to realise is that transgenderism is not linked to sexuality. You can be a gay transgendered person, or a straight transgendered person. Ben grew up knowing he was a boy, and was attracted to girls, just as I grew up knowing I was a girl and being attracted to them. Ben's mother admitted that she'd never been able to get Ben to wear a dress, at any age, then allowed her husband to repeat that is was a 'phase', as if it was a recent revelation.

The second moment of annoyance came from a documentary my sister was watching about a woman having fat removal/liposuction. The surgeon said he refuses to perform operations on people with gender dysphoria (or, as he mislabeled "transvestites") because of his beligerance towards to idea of chopping off a penis "for the hell of it".

Firstly, if it was a case of having the gentialia altered 'curing' such a condition, it wouldn't be such a long haul, and secondly, it galls me that a surgeon not only messed up his terminology, but also knew -nothing- about the procedure. The penis is -inverted-, not 'chopped off'.

My point with all of this is to help clarify to some who may have well wondered what exactly I was, or else ever had a query. Also to point out that this isn't a phase for most. It's very real, and something that's with us from birth. Having the wrong brain for the wrong body does not do the feeling justice. It's very real, and almost abstract in how it feels. Like being in the wrong skin and knowing it, but also feeling an inner loss of what you should have.



[center]Anyway, I hope this has been of use to some people, and if you have any questions, I'm more than happy to answer them. Love, Sarah.
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PostSubject: Re: Some little titbits and facts about transgenderism and gender dysphoria.   Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:04 pm

A very enlightening post, Sarah. It's a very private matter to bring up on a public forum, expecially in WAL's random carp, but I do hope that people can respect that very fact in whatever posts may follow.

Anyways, I really can't imagine how a situation like this must feel, and it may be difficult to know exactly what one should say in response other than I hope that whatever "solutions" there are to this will bring you relief with time.

And also...

As a man who is quite fond of his penis... They..they.. bloody well invert penises?! Hrgngrlg.. *cringes*
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PostSubject: Re: Some little titbits and facts about transgenderism and gender dysphoria.   Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:32 pm

What I really don't get is why most people so easily leap to the conclusion "This person has a different gender in eir mind than eir biological body seems to have.. It's obviously the mind that's wrong and not the body!". The idea of something going wrong as the baby's gender developes doesn't sound all that strange, I think. Much more than it being a really strange mental disorder of some sort. ((Yes, I know there are numerous different things that are believed to cause transexualism, but that wasn't my point)).
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PostSubject: Re: Some little titbits and facts about transgenderism and gender dysphoria.   Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:55 am

Ok first of all ,please dont take offence to this, im just curious, how can you say your are the wrong gender, as your are the gender your born with right?
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PostSubject: Re: Some little titbits and facts about transgenderism and gender dysphoria.   Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:05 pm

Of course I don't take offense. The main thing is that the physical, genetic gender is not the same as the psychiological and spiritual one. Imagine wearing a really impressive disguise that made you look completely different, and people assumed you were that person. You'd know who you were, but whilst in that costume, people are seeing another face and appearence. That's not a great way to explain it, as the feeling's more abstract than that. The way I feel is that of a girl. I always have done. I'm not particularly 'girly' per se, but rather feelings, sentiments and the feeling of self are feminine. My outward appearence is masculine, and I have a few masculine interests (or rather those associated with stereotypes), but I have never felt 'right' as a boy.

In responce to Ry: Most psychologists now accept it as more than a mental condition, and many experts acknowledge that it is somethnig the child knows more about than they ever could, simply because it's so very hard to place3 oneself in a transgenders shoes. You try and get someone to imagine themselves waking up as the wrong gender, and most will more than likely see it as a fascinating opportunity - or else some comedy pulp novel.

However, for a transgender, it's like a waking nightmare, with a body that feels wrong, and more like a prison. The main theory is that as the faetus is developinh in the womb, the body is exposed to hormones and starts to develop further as female, or become male. The brain however goes through this at a different time, if at all. Essentially, a transgendered male is a boy with a girls brain, and for a transgendered girl, a girl with a boys brain.

As I say, it's very difficult to explain, and my main reason was to help put into words some of the frustrations felt and to help clarify things.
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PostSubject: Re: Some little titbits and facts about transgenderism and gender dysphoria.   Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:04 pm

i see what your saying and think your brave for posting this on a public forum

but i not sure on your views, i tend to think that it has alot to do with the chemicals in your brain and the electrical impulses that make you think, in a sence im tryinn to say your brain has been wired wrong, this is my view, as i dont belive in a soul and i dont belive in god, so that rules that out for me

my wife does alot of studying on the brain and how it works for the job she wishes to do in the future, and we talk about things like this all the time.. she sort of agrees with me, but has alot more idear how it might work

not sure it has anything to do with you when your are in the womb, but i do think it has a lot to do with your upbringing and your peers around you, things that may have happened to you when your are young

as for the tv show i watched that and sort of agreed with the show, she/he was only 17 the body is still changing and so is your mind, maybe she/he should wait and see if this is a extrem phase of been a "tom boy"

things like this are along time from been show as a medical thing that can be fixed by popping to a doc and getting a pill for it, getting stuff cut up/off is at this point somehting that is the only way to "fix the problem" but then you can turn that on its head and say that its just the same as cosmetic surgry that people can be addicted to

as for you as a person, i have one question please correct me if im wrong, im sure that you cant be put forward for any of the cutting or the last stages of the change unless ok in the mind, and you have said on a number of times that your are on pills to make you happy and not depressed, im just know that if there was a light at the end of the tunnel for me, id be well happy that im going to feel normal

but thats just me
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PostSubject: Re: Some little titbits and facts about transgenderism and gender dysphoria.   Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:11 am

A very enlightening and poignant post. I do think that your own experiences would serve as a powerful "awakening" for many people (transgenderal and everyone else) if they could be told in a sensitive and honest way.
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Lyranne

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PostSubject: Re: Some little titbits and facts about transgenderism and gender dysphoria.   Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:28 pm

Luko wrote:
i see what your saying and think your brave for posting this on a public forum

but i not sure on your views, i tend to think that it has alot to do with the chemicals in your brain and the electrical impulses that make you think, in a sence im tryinn to say your brain has been wired wrong, this is my view, as i dont belive in a soul and i dont belive in god, so that rules that out for me

my wife does alot of studying on the brain and how it works for the job she wishes to do in the future, and we talk about things like this all the time.. she sort of agrees with me, but has alot more idear how it might work

not sure it has anything to do with you when your are in the womb, but i do think it has a lot to do with your upbringing and your peers around you, things that may have happened to you when your are young

as for the tv show i watched that and sort of agreed with the show, she/he was only 17 the body is still changing and so is your mind, maybe she/he should wait and see if this is a extrem phase of been a "tom boy"

things like this are along time from been show as a medical thing that can be fixed by popping to a doc and getting a pill for it, getting stuff cut up/off is at this point somehting that is the only way to "fix the problem" but then you can turn that on its head and say that its just the same as cosmetic surgry that people can be addicted to

as for you as a person, i have one question please correct me if im wrong, im sure that you cant be put forward for any of the cutting or the last stages of the change unless ok in the mind, and you have said on a number of times that your are on pills to make you happy and not depressed, im just know that if there was a light at the end of the tunnel for me, id be well happy that im going to feel normal

but thats just me

I don't believe in God either, but I used the mention of a spirit simply as a means to get across the abstract nature of how it all feels. It's easier for me to believe that my brain is wired correctly, and my body is what's at fault: We all know humanity has many genetic faults and it's easier to think that a body would develop the wrong way, rather than a brain's sole 'problem' being that it belongs to the wrong gender.

An example of this would be pseudo hermaphrodism. There's an episode of House that deals with this, and it is a real genetic condition whereby a feotus that was to develop as a boy doesn't because it's immune to testosterone. They're then born as girls outwardly, though their gonads have actually developed into testicles, rather than ovaries (however, they stay inside, rather than drop).
That person will feel as though they are a girl, and will look like one, however, their genetic code is infact XY, not XX. If a person is born looking like a girl and feels they are one, and you tell them that they're actually male, it would be detrimental to them, even if it's fact and 'truth'. For me it's that my brain went one way, and the body went another. As peculiar as it sounds.

My defence of the boy on Jeremy Kyle was that as they get older, their body will develop more in line with a female, just as mine has become more masuline. The main question to put towards anyone going through such a psycholoigcal and physical trauma is whether or not they will be able to cope with being so far removed from how they see themself and feel inwardly.

For myself, I knew from the age of six that I was the wrong gender. My best friend was male, I kissed my first girl at this age, and have always been attracted to them. I'm the oldest sibling, and my parents were both always present in my life. To all intents an purposes, I had a relatively 'normal' upbringing, but at school, I would put on dresses and I generally never felt like a boy. I really had no solid idea of what gender was at such a young age, and so assumed it was normal, or else something that would 'get better'. It didn't.

The logic of diagnosing young is that they can halt the changes brought about by puberty and allow the person timje to make sure of what they want. There's no real downside as if they do feel they are the correct gender, hormones and so forth will resolve it (and they won't have had an operation anyway), if they are still sure they're the wrong gender, then they can avoid becoming an adult version of what they were born.

Alas, a lot of this is reaffirmation and reiteration of what I've said before, though that's expected when it's not anything easily put across in words. To place ones very essense on a computer screen and allow others to see how one thinks and feels is all but impossible unless one has an incredible gift for eloquence.
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PostSubject: Re: Some little titbits and facts about transgenderism and gender dysphoria.   Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:49 pm

Lyranne wrote:
Alas, a lot of this is reaffirmation and reiteration of what I've said before, though that's expected when it's not anything easily put across in words. To place ones very essense on a computer screen and allow others to see how one thinks and feels is all but impossible unless one has an incredible gift for eloquence.

...and the reader has an actual interest in understanding.
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PostSubject: Re: Some little titbits and facts about transgenderism and gender dysphoria.   Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:14 pm

Chassandra wrote:
Lyranne wrote:
Alas, a lot of this is reaffirmation and reiteration of what I've said before, though that's expected when it's not anything easily put across in words. To place ones very essense on a computer screen and allow others to see how one thinks and feels is all but impossible unless one has an incredible gift for eloquence.

...and the reader has an actual interest in understanding.

That too Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Some little titbits and facts about transgenderism and gender dysphoria.   Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:35 pm

Lyranne wrote:


For myself, I knew from the age of six that I was the wrong gender. My best friend was male, I kissed my first girl at this age, and have always been attracted to them. I'm the oldest sibling, and my parents were both always present in my life. To all intents an purposes, I had a relatively 'normal' upbringing, but at school, I would put on dresses and I generally never felt like a boy. I really had no solid idea of what gender was at such a young age, and so assumed it was normal, or else something that would 'get better'. It didn't.

The logic of diagnosing young is that they can halt the changes brought about by puberty and allow the person timje to make sure of what they want. There's no real downside as if they do feel they are the correct gender, hormones and so forth will resolve it (and they won't have had an operation anyway), if they are still sure they're the wrong gender, then they can avoid becoming an adult version of what they were born.

Alas, a lot of this is reaffirmation and reiteration of what I've said before, though that's expected when it's not anything easily put across in words. To place ones very essense on a computer screen and allow others to see how one thinks and feels is all but impossible unless one has an incredible gift for eloquence.

and this is yet the biggest problem

how does a six year old know what he wants, most six year olds ive seen can make up there mind on what action hero they like never mind what sex they want to be

and talking about sex, is it right that a parent or even a doctor talks about sex to some one so young, i know when i get children i will go mental if any one even tryed, as far as im conserned children of that age have there innoccence and should be left that way, every one is in a rush to grow up, why sped things up at such a wrong age

i said that some things like that could be a factor to wanting be a diffrent sex, i mean to say by this, thinkgs that happen when your younger, you your self have just said that you dressed in girls clothes and didnt think anything was wrong with it, and by the sounds of it no one told you that little boys dont wear dresses, some could read that and say your gay, but from your own words you say you like girls so then this isnt the case. my point is from the first second we are born, our enviroment shapes us into what we are and what we are to become, you learn every thing from your parents and close peers. im not sure this can be classed as a genetic defect, i mean things like missing limps or extra arms yes, but a girls brain in a male body, that alone is a little far fetched, having both sexes yes but for it to only affect your brain.. im just not sure

i still think that it is a mental thing, something that many not beable to be fixed, as an extrem example you could say that it is the same as a psycopath, that is a mental thing, yet has no body defects.

but thats just my two cents, you will thing im wrong, which is your right, but then you kind of loss some of that by posting on a public forum
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PostSubject: Re: Some little titbits and facts about transgenderism and gender dysphoria.   Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:01 pm

Is this even a subject we layman should have opinions upon from what we -think-?

Just go read the scientific articles written by the psychologists and get the real answers, and stay away from the truthiness.
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PostSubject: Re: Some little titbits and facts about transgenderism and gender dysphoria.   Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:26 pm

Luko wrote:


and this is yet the biggest problem

how does a six year old know what he wants, most six year olds ive seen can make up there mind on what action hero they like never mind what sex they want to be

and talking about sex, is it right that a parent or even a doctor talks about sex to some one so young, i know when i get children i will go mental if any one even tryed, as far as im conserned children of that age have there innoccence and should be left that way, every one is in a rush to grow up, why sped things up at such a wrong age

i said that some things like that could be a factor to wanting be a diffrent sex, i mean to say by this, thinkgs that happen when your younger, you your self have just said that you dressed in girls clothes and didnt think anything was wrong with it, and by the sounds of it no one told you that little boys dont wear dresses, some could read that and say your gay, but from your own words you say you like girls so then this isnt the case. my point is from the first second we are born, our enviroment shapes us into what we are and what we are to become, you learn every thing from your parents and close peers. im not sure this can be classed as a genetic defect, i mean things like missing limps or extra arms yes, but a girls brain in a male body, that alone is a little far fetched, having both sexes yes but for it to only affect your brain.. im just not sure

i still think that it is a mental thing, something that many not beable to be fixed, as an extrem example you could say that it is the same as a psycopath, that is a mental thing, yet has no body defects.

but thats just my two cents, you will thing im wrong, which is your right, but then you kind of loss some of that by posting on a public forum

No one mentioned sex. Gender is nothing to do with sex in any way, shape or form. As I pointed out, a pseudo hermaphrodite is a male, even though they are female in appearence. Genetically they're male, but they have -no- male physcial traits. That is a genetic fault, not psychological. I am aware of what happens around you shaping your life, though as has been proven in the past, nature beats nurture. If someone is a transexual, it's not to do with outside influences.

A psychopath is not a great example, as they do tend to be shaped by their real life experiences, but because of how their brain is wired, they don't function normally. A transexual, as described in the medical field, is someone who feels they're the wrong gender, and they do use the phrasing regarding right brain, wrong body. This isn't some simple sentiment, and as I have said, is not something easily explained. It's not as though one can discern a masculine thought from a feminine one (as most examples are based upon society, not natural reactions). Most males in the animal kindgom are bright and colourful, with the females being the slightly less exotic looking. It's only society and traditions dating back millenia that have caused what we deem masculine and feminine. We're conditioned to believe the stereotypes and 'play along' with them. Less than a few centuries ago, men wore tights, makeup and even wigs. The Scottish traditional clothing is a kilt, and even Romans had skirts.

None of that has any bearing on this, however, as it's not a desire to dress like a female, but rather my body not being in synch with my brain. One can't rewire the latter, but can correct the former, so regardless of it's it's psychological, -or- genetic, the safest and fairest solution is to assume it's the brain that's right, not the body. And again, we know the body can be wrong (as with my hermaphrodite example).

Also, the thought of surgery and so forth at six hadn't even been considered. I was young and innocent enough to think that if I wished it hard enough, I'd me 'magically' transformed. That's how naivé and desperate I was. Science essentially has the cure.
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PostSubject: Re: Some little titbits and facts about transgenderism and gender dysphoria.   Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:30 pm

As others already have, i'd like to commend Sarah on the brave decision to post about this subject here.

I'd also like to see this trend of asking genuine questions and posting heartfelt opinions without attacking those of others continue.

This is a very challenging subject due to the fact that i doubt many of us have ever happened across it before, much less had access to any information that we could base a solid opinion on.

Personally, i recall, several years ago, reading an article in a magazine about a 14 year old girl who also felt she was born the 'wrong' gender, insisted on being called Ben and hoped, after consultations with various doctors, to be allowed to receive treatment to achieve the 'correct' physical gender.

In contrast to shows such as the one mentioned, the magazine in question seemed to treat the subject with sensitivity and "Ben's" parents seemed content that, should the doctors give the go ahead, their child should be allowed to the chance to become the person they felt they should be.

Since then, I've also come into contact with two people in my workplace that have been through the process, changing from male to female. I only knew one of them well but she was a lovely person who had a fantastic sense of humor. She was always willing to laugh at herself as she was quite obviously born male (she still played rugby after the op) but felt so much more comfortable with herself afterwards that even the rare jibe from the odd few that had issues with her was like water off a duck's back.

At the end of the day, we only get to live once. So, as long as we're not causing harm to others, we might as well be happy in ourselves.

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PostSubject: Re: Some little titbits and facts about transgenderism and gender dysphoria.   Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:43 pm

Let's just end any uncertainty on the subject with a very easy question;

Sarah, can you parallell park a car?
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PostSubject: Re: Some little titbits and facts about transgenderism and gender dysphoria.   Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:48 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudo-hermaphrodite Not that I'm calling myself a hermaphrodite (and a warning that this page does contain images that some may find unsettling) I thought it appropriate to show just how much genetics can mess with the conformities of two genders.
If you want to be crude about it, one could call a transexual a hermaphrodite where only the brain remains unaffected by the fetal development. Again, this makes more sense to me than simply having some psychological condition. They did, in the past treat it as such, but with no real success.
Shock treatment and so forth were all used to rewire the brain, though from what I recall any success was more or less the person being conditioned to say they were 'okay now' to stop the treatment continuing.
I don't consider it a brave decision on my part, as I had already told many of you what I was. This is simply a way to put into context the facts and opinions one holds.

As said before, it's not something tangeable nor even with a rel answer. Most experts will have differing opinions, and there are probably as many theories as to what causes it as there are versions of hermaphrodism. The modern approach however is to accept that the brain is right when communicating with a transexual, as it's a hard sell to convince people a person who's only sign of malaise is that they 'think' they're the wrong gender.
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PostSubject: Re: Some little titbits and facts about transgenderism and gender dysphoria.   Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:49 pm

Quintilius wrote:
Let's just end any uncertainty on the subject with a very easy question;

Sarah, can you parallell park a car?

I don't know, I've never driven a real car Razz I get lost a hell of a lot though.
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PostSubject: Re: Some little titbits and facts about transgenderism and gender dysphoria.   Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:53 am

I'm disgusted by people in this thread. People watch the Jeremy Kyle show? They ought to be ashamed.

It's a public forum for the nations retards to act up in front of a studio audience full of retards, hosted by a retard and shown on TV for viewing by unemployed and student retards.

Why would anyone watch that garbage? Dearie fucking me...
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PostSubject: Re: Some little titbits and facts about transgenderism and gender dysphoria.   Sat Nov 21, 2009 11:39 am

I don't watch it, my sister does. I loathe and detest all types of show like that. I don't even watch reality TV. But when that episode was on, I took notice simply because I couldn't believe the title of the segment "How can I stop my teenage girl becoming a man". It was the parents that dragged their son onto the show, and I think the fathers behaviour was shameful.
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PostSubject: Re: Some little titbits and facts about transgenderism and gender dysphoria.   Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:56 pm

What Vex said really
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PostSubject: Re.   Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:57 pm

Sarah. You have no idea how happy I am that you posted this*smiles*
I believe that this may enlighten people a bit on the subject(or at least I hope it will).
And that perhaps someday, more people can be a bit more understanding and accepting.

This brightened my day and you just earned a gold star in my book for this sunny
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Avior

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Number of posts : 275
Age : 27
Registration date : 2009-02-07

PostSubject: Re: Some little titbits and facts about transgenderism and gender dysphoria.   Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:03 pm

Call me transsexualophobic or whatever, but i just don't understand why people should become more acceptiong towards those who can't even accept their own body.
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Quintilius

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Registration date : 2008-07-08

PostSubject: Re: Some little titbits and facts about transgenderism and gender dysphoria.   Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:06 pm

Then why shouldn't we?
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PostSubject: Re: Some little titbits and facts about transgenderism and gender dysphoria.   Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:08 pm

Quote :
And that perhaps someday, more people can be a bit more understanding and accepting.

The problem with that is it is mostly all theory, thus saying people should be more understanding and accepting of it is kind of wrong. I am under the (perhaps stubborn) impression that being born with the "wrong body" seems too far fetched and "perfect" to be a deformity.

Let us see what the guys that get payed for studying this come up with eventually.
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PostSubject: Re: Some little titbits and facts about transgenderism and gender dysphoria.   Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:09 pm

Avior wrote:
Call me transsexualophobic or whatever, but i just don't understand why people should become more acceptiong towards those who can't even accept their own body.

and that just shows what a small mined person you are.. and what a dick you can be
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PostSubject: Re: Some little titbits and facts about transgenderism and gender dysphoria.   

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Some little titbits and facts about transgenderism and gender dysphoria.
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