And so it ends

It's become clear that we just don't have the people/motivation to carry on with these raids, in my view this is because of a number of issues.

1) Interest: A lot of people are simply bored, and there's little we can do.

2) People: We haven't got nearly as many people willing to come with as we did at the beginning, which leads me to:

3) Losing people to medium/hardcore raid groups: This was one that I wasn't ready for. I kinda assumed that people would be a little loyal to the group after we help gear them up. I was wrong. I won't name the people, but it's a grudge that I won't lose easily, we started this because we didn't want to join raid guilds, and now people are taking their gear, and using us as a stepping stone to get into raid guilds. Which leads me to:

4) Losing rp'ers: When this started, I remember Tivak/Krohlm saying to me that he didn't like raiding, and that he was only involved in the raids to help bring the community together. A few months later, he quit rp, in favor of raiding, and I believe that he became the raid leader of a raiding guild, for a while. He's not the only one who's seemingly quit rp for raiding, and perhaps it was my fault for introducing him to the world of "real" raiding.

5) I've not been around as much lately, what with the extra pressure at work the last month, and my spider bite, which has rendered me rather useless. It turns out that it was a "Violin Spider" for anyone who's interested. ( One of the four most dangerous spiders to be bitten by in South Africa)

I'll try again once Ulduar comes, but I don't hold out too much hope that it will really attract enough people's attention. Thank you to all those who signed up week after week and stuck with it to the end, it's been a long, fun, and at times emotional trip, and I'll never forget it.

Sorry to hear that Chow. Same thing, on smaller scale, happens all the time to RP guilds. We lost Ryoquir and Gharshag, oldest ToC members, to a raiding guild + everyone they had brought. I predict however, there is a curve to this: they don't want to RP unless someone is constantly creating events for them (i.e. done on their behalf); they want to raid, because their other mates are doing so, and the game is about gear and seeing content; they raid more and more heavily, then get bored again, then quit or lay off and play another game for a while.

Such is the way with folks, certainly younger guys IMO.

Chow, I salute you and your efforts in this.
Personally thanks for organising this, and having the patience to explain stuff to nibs like me when it comes to tactics.

Apologies if I have missed a few of the weeknight slots, but it is really challenging for me to be online for 7pm, 6.30pm for sign-ups.
Having never bothered with raiding before, I will say I found it fun - but more for the social aspect and the people rather than seeing the actual content or getting phat loots.

Perhaps 25man just isn't achieveable from the SSL RP community - due to lack of numbers, lets face it the community isn't exactly massive.

As for your comments about people jumping ship to raid full time I also think this is a shame, personally I really CBA just farming the same stuff over and over and can't see the attraction in abandoning RP just to raid. Let's face it, and people have called me for saying this in the past, people who go off to raid say that it's just a distraction and they continue to RP but it seems not to be the case.

My two copper.

Echoing what Vex said, it's been good to see someone trying to offer raiding in a casual setting for RPers.
As he also said, I'm guessing that 25-man is probably not the way forward when Ulduar comes around.

As to the RPers leaving, ToC's situation doesn't surprise me simply because we are not a particularly active guild anymore (we probably average 2 people on at peak times!) and Tiv's change was more to do with frustrations with RPers attitudes (which Oppy has mentioned already). As to the others, I don't know anything about them so can't comment, but I think that looking for 1-2 nights per week (max) on 10-man raids would be doable based on what I've seen of interest before now and I know that once I L2P my DK beyond just grinding and levelling I'd be up for the odd raid.

So, to simplify:

1. There are people who want to do the 'odd' raid, 10 man or 25 man, now and then (like, once a week) -- which is like me.

2. There are people who want to end up raiding more often.

3. There are people who get fed up with trying to do uber RP events and migrate to 2.

4. There are people trying to do 1 but remain even more erratic, due to time commitments (me).

Man! You would say this before I even hit 80, wouldn't you? I would like to see the baby raids a couple of times, if only to have a base of comparison with old grind-a-thon Karazhan. Man, I'm glad to be done with that place.

Adalan wrote:

Man! You would say this before I even hit 80, wouldn't you? I would like to see the baby raids a couple of times, if only to have a base of comparison with old grind-a-thon Karazhan. Man, I'm glad to be done with that place.

There's still alot of 10-mans to be had.

Adalan wrote:

Man! You would say this before I even hit 80, wouldn't you? I would like to see the baby raids a couple of times, if only to have a base of comparison with old grind-a-thon Karazhan. Man, I'm glad to be done with that place.

I'm sure some 10 man stuff would be achievable.


edit: lol, jinx Quint

What I meant when I said that Tiv/Krohlm went to a raiding guild, is that if I hadn't introduced him to it, he likely wouldn't have done so.

I don't hold a grudge against him though, I completely understand his reasons, it was just an example.

Re: Adalan

This is not over, just for the time being. I do hope to kick this off again sometime, but for the forseeable future, it seems like we just can't manage.

I'm sorry to hear that.
All I can say is that I know the feeling, as this was exactly what happened to the raid-team I started with Teana in TBC.

The whole idea is immense and great, Chow deserves a pat on the shoulder for that!

Indeed this happens, reminds me of the <BLOODSAIL BLACKHANDS> back in TBC. Started as pure RP guild and we started heroics>pug KZ>KZ attempts till we forgot about RP and got over to PvE.

Leading into the usual PvE whine crap and in the end big drama and former friends and roleplay buddys leaving for PvE. This is how the guild ended, a big shame and I blame the purple epix and (my) childish behavior in that time.

A reason why I am still skeptic how good RP and PvE can work together. There are good examples that for some it works, and more then enough that it doesnt.

Still I think work was given up too much on Chow only, I never was a part of this and what I know is from LFRP and here but some more serious aid into this could have taken a other end. Then again I am not in the position to give any suggestions.

I've had a chat with a few people, and I want to start this again, on a much smaller scale.

I am looking at putting together an ulduar team together, it's supposed to be far harder than Naxx, and it'll take a good group to get it down. Contact me if you're interested.

I've used that WoW-head guage, and from what I can see, of those I spied on (as intyped my characters names and friends) only Nerissa, Hubbit and Chowlawu (the characters, hence using their names) are going to be 'comfortable' for Ulduar. Admittedly, I checked Mariellé whilst specced Ret, and she was yellow for the content. My point is if people wish to even try 10-man Ulduar, then they can't now get complacent on current content.

Before we do a quiet resting of this whole RPers raiding, I suggest we try, for a laugh; Malygos. I, as well as a few others, have the key to normal, though I don't believe I know anyone with the heroic key.

I wouldn't suggest this for people without strong gear, or a strong desire to see the fight, but it's a nice experience to go away with (even if it feels as though it was lifted from a Final Fantasy game).

I raid simply because it's more immediate than trying to wait around for RP storylines to continue. I'll be honest, RP and PvE are very much alike. To do either well, you need commitment. With RP, it's putting aside to time think about what you'd like to do, going out and meeting characters, and generally progressing a plot. With PvE, it's about gathering materials, and getting your gear up to scratch. The preparing's only as exciting as the proposition. I look forward to PvE more than RP simply because after a year of the latter, I've seen pretty much every RP storyline I've been involved in fade into nothing as people have prior engagements. People change their mind about what they want to do with a character, and it leaves those who had a clear view with nothing. It's not rewarding in the slightest to have to throw away every plan like that. I haven't given up on RP, but feel less and less incentive when I find myself with nothing to do.

I'll stop there or else be consumed by bitterness and contempt... Or else just sulk.

Edit: Just looked how Mariellé fares as Holy, and according to that, she'd barely be up to Naxx 25-man as a healer. That pretty much says it all.

*runs off and pouts*

Presumably Ulduar has both easier and harder parts just as Naxx and most other raids?
Then we should continue gearing up in Naxx while checking how long we can get in the new contents.

So far as I'm concerned, the 25 man Naxx raids are a thing of the past, I counted 12 people who had left the group once they had geared up, and we just don't have the people anymore.

As for gearing up, Naxx 10 will of course have decent gear for those who want to gear up, but bear in mind that it's the same item level as heroic gear, so if you're in full heroic epics, you won't see many upgrades there. Also, don't rely on it for gear either, as running heroics is far easier, and you can do as many as you want in a week, as opposed to a single Naxx run.

Like I've said before, I want to start this up again, but we'll need replacements for those who left, including three tanks, and a ton of dps. Oddly, our healers are all still around <3

Chowlawu wrote:

Oddly, our healers are all still around <3

Healers are faithful, we all know that. After all, they are trained to keep the rest of the poor sods happy (and sometimes even alive).
Love ya, babes!

7 levels to go and I'll be DPS for you. Mind you, it'll probably be at the 3rd patch of this expansion by that point!

Gurfang wrote:

7 levels to go and I'll be DPS for you. Mind you, it'll probably be at the 3rd patch of this expansion by that point!

This ^

Chassandra wrote:

Chowlawu wrote:

Oddly, our healers are all still around <3

Healers are faithful, we all know that. After all, they are trained to keep the rest of the poor sods happy (and sometimes even alive).
Love ya, babes!

Or maybe they just couldn't get into raiding guilds because they had too many? ^^

Nah, you guys are too awesome for that.

Always more healers reqd!

I wanna see some gore though!

I used to think about how selfless the healers who healed for us were..

That's until I rolled a healer of my own and realised just what awesome fun it is! They've been keeping the healing all to themselves, the selfish [insert swear word describing said healers here] !

Really, healing is awesome fun, everyone should do it..

...except for solo leveling. *shiver*
But yeah, healing in raids are really fun, especially when you get that 18k crit heal when the tank is almost dead...
It's not as fun in simple-minded dungeon runs with great tanks that don't take any damage. But that's a perfect time to get your weapon skills up.
(yeah, I leveled fist weapons from 1 to 450 while healing heroics...)

Chowlawu wrote:

I used to think about how selfless the healers who healed for us were..
That's until I rolled a healer of my own and realised just what awesome fun it is! They've been keeping the healing all to themselves, the selfish [insert swear word describing said healers here] !

You better not be healin' on my manor, sweet'eart, or we'll 'ave ta send the lads 'round for a word in yer shell-like, if you know wot I mean.

I've never applied to a raiding guild, and as long as AO exists I'm never likely to. In my 10-man Naxx last night. I knew everyone's real name, and had met almost half of them in real life. How fucking awesome is -that-! Playing with friends is infinitely more fun than playing with a random bunch of people who just want the same loot you do. ^^

Hehe

I'll never tire of people belittling my HoTs till they see the WWS... never never never

Anyways

3 cheers to Chow (and anyone else who worked with this group)

*Cheer

*Cheer

*Cheer