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 Upcoming Swedish election

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Manovan Marrowsteel

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PostSubject: Upcoming Swedish election   Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:05 pm

What should I vote for and why? All the political parties have something that bother me. I don't want to vote for the arrogant right and I don't want to vote for the daydreaming left. I don't want to be associated to a specific political party if I vote for it strategically to counter another specific party. But yet I don't want to skip voting at all. Gah! This is bewildering.
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Vexacus

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PostSubject: Re: Upcoming Swedish election   Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:45 pm

So I actually know nothing about politics in sweden. Tell me more or point me in the direction of some reading so I can find out.

Plus, if you don't want to vote for any of the candidates but don't want to not vote, you can always just deliberately spoil your papers to show your feelings. Drawing a giant knob on the ballot paper usually does the trick.
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Tavecy



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PostSubject: Re: Upcoming Swedish election   Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:24 pm

My vote will go to the daydreaming left and always has.

No matter where your vote ends up just make sure you vote Mano.
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Tavecy



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PostSubject: Re: Upcoming Swedish election   Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:27 pm

Vänsterpartiet will get my vote both in Riksdagssvalet and kommunalvalet.
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Leaf

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PostSubject: Re: Upcoming Swedish election   Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:28 pm

Sverigedemokraterna.
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Manovan Marrowsteel

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PostSubject: Re: Upcoming Swedish election   Sat Aug 28, 2010 7:34 pm

Leaf wrote:
Sverigedemokraterna.
No thanks.
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Opathu

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PostSubject: Re: Upcoming Swedish election   Sat Aug 28, 2010 9:41 pm

Leaf wrote:
Sverigedemokraterna.

Isn't that the right-wing loony party? ("no immigrants")
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Manovan Marrowsteel

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PostSubject: Re: Upcoming Swedish election   Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:50 pm

Opathu wrote:
Leaf wrote:
Sverigedemokraterna.

Isn't that the right-wing loony party? ("no immigrants")
Yup. They've gained more and more support these last years, mostly from the secretly racist white middle-class middle-agers. Luckily, they are not the worst of the racist bunch if you take parties such as Nationaldemokraterna into account. Most of the openly racist and the nazis went from Sverigedemokraterna to Nationaldemokraterna after SD tried to become more mainstream. A teacher of mine is closely studying Nationaldemokraterna and the municipalities they have the most influence in. You always learn something new about those inbred bed-wetting bullyvictims on his classes.
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Leaf

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PostSubject: Re: Upcoming Swedish election   Sun Aug 29, 2010 1:40 pm

Aw, no flame? :[

Tbh, I have no idea about what to vote for either, yet.
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Snicka

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PostSubject: Re: Upcoming Swedish election   Sun Aug 29, 2010 8:57 pm

Is the Pirate Party still around?
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Manovan Marrowsteel

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PostSubject: Re: Upcoming Swedish election   Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:14 pm

Snicka wrote:
Is the Pirate Party still around?
Yes. Apparently they still try to justify stealing people's stuff.
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Shadowtroll

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PostSubject: Re: Upcoming Swedish election   Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:54 am

Manovan Marrowsteel wrote:
Snicka wrote:
Is the Pirate Party still around?
Yes. Apparently they still try to justify stealing people's stuff.

They got my vote.

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Tavecy



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PostSubject: Re: Upcoming Swedish election   Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:47 pm

Anyone who feels that the most important issue of a goverment election is the right to steal copyrighted works
has to live an incredibly sheltered and safe life.

This is not directed at you Shadowtroll it's just how I feel. There are way more important things that has gone to hell in
our society today for example: overcrowded classrooms, healthcare down the drain, no jobs, no apartments, organized crime on the rise.....

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Snicka

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PostSubject: Re: Upcoming Swedish election   Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:50 pm

Since Shadowtroll is from Bulgaria/Moldova, he has no vote in the Swedish elections anyway.
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Quintilius

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PostSubject: Re: Upcoming Swedish election   Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:18 pm

In danger of derailing the whole thing, but the whole discussion about piracy is quite interesting. The whole black and white "stealing" thing is something that really can be debated and it can be a really interesting subject.

And if the swedish politics is anything like the norwegian then it's not easy to choose at all. I just know who the hell to stay away from. We got Fremskrittspartiet who's all "no immigrants, no goverment grants to arts, cheaper gas, lower taxes and cheaper boose!" But many of the parties is just a mush of the samish politics which it can be difficult to actually make out the real differences. And they just form coalition goverments anyways so it's almost allways the same chaps who get in. I dunno, I feel it's worse to vote for shit you don't have a clue about than to not vote at all.

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Shadowtroll

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PostSubject: Re: Upcoming Swedish election   Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:18 pm

Tavecy wrote:
Anyone who feels that the most important issue of a goverment election is the right to steal copyrighted works
has to live an incredibly sheltered and safe life.

This is not directed at you Shadowtroll it's just how I feel. There are way more important things that has gone to hell in
our society today for example: overcrowded classrooms, healthcare down the drain, no jobs, no apartments, organized crime on the rise.....


No offense taken, its true that this isn't really of any importance knowing there are other problems to be solved, and a vote for them would be a wasted vote since it could be used for actual issues.

Its just I never ever payed for music, software or games (and WoW is starting to get into that group as well!) and I cannot but just share my sympathy for fellow pirates pirat

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munechi



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PostSubject: Re: Upcoming Swedish election   Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:44 pm

Shadowtroll wrote:

Its just I never ever payed for music, software or games (and WoW is starting to get into that group as well!) and I cannot but just share my sympathy for fellow pirates pirat

Because of people like you we get shit like DRM and ACTA D:
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Opathu

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PostSubject: Re: Upcoming Swedish election   Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:23 pm

As much as I enjoy "paying nothing", it presents a tremendous problem for building an effective business model. Not to mention creating a paying livelihood for people like me, who (try to) write books, journalism and so on -- and still get paid, in order to buy a house, raise a family, have a holiday, etc. If (theoretically) everyone pays nothing, then the only creators are going to be hobbyists (in the extreme example) who do it "for free" (and can't live from it).


Last edited by Opathu on Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Quintilius

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PostSubject: Re: Upcoming Swedish election   Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:24 pm

That's kinda looking at it from the wrong perspective in my opinion. Because of people who think DRM and ACTA is a good idea, we get DRM and ACTA Razz

http://xkcd.com/488/
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Quintilius

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PostSubject: Re: Upcoming Swedish election   Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:31 pm

Opathu wrote:
As much as I enjoy "paying nothing", it presents a tremendous problem for building an effective business model. Not to mention creating a paying livelihood for people like me, who (try to) write books, journalism and so on -- and still get paid, in order to buy a house, raise a family, have a holiday, etc. If (theoretically) everyone pays nothing, then the only creators are going to be hobbyists (in the extreme example) who do it "for free" (and can't live from it).

Well, sure. But there's a difference in making sure the artist is getting payed and restricting every product in such a way that you can never really own it yourself, when you have bought it. Also, it seems more like a tool to insure that the corporate businessmen get their money instead of the artist.

Things like DRM seems counter-productive and would probably just lead to even more piracy.
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Opathu

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PostSubject: Re: Upcoming Swedish election   Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:01 am

Quintilius wrote:
Opathu wrote:
As much as I enjoy "paying nothing", it presents a tremendous problem for building an effective business model. Not to mention creating a paying livelihood for people like me, who (try to) write books, journalism and so on -- and still get paid, in order to buy a house, raise a family, have a holiday, etc. If (theoretically) everyone pays nothing, then the only creators are going to be hobbyists (in the extreme example) who do it "for free" (and can't live from it).

Well, sure. But there's a difference in making sure the artist is getting payed and restricting every product in such a way that you can never really own it yourself, when you have bought it. Also, it seems more like a tool to insure that the corporate businessmen get their money instead of the artist.

Things like DRM seems counter-productive and would probably just lead to even more piracy.

I agree. But that doesn't remove the issue that some people (many people) regardless or not of DRM issues STILL wish to pay NOTHING. Shocked

edit: My point here is that a) I agree totally about DRM. Restricting content is not great and there must be a way (technically as well as financially viable) to make DRM work in all interests. b) if DRM issues could be sorted out, more people would pay (I think) but there are still way too many people who also think it is their right not to pay anything for content (e.g. music, photos, video, book, articles). We have simply got used to paying nothing for content. I am trying to separate out the two issues here:

• DRM -- which we all agree needs to be improved, particularly in favour of the content creators (like me) as well as end users (like you)

• Paying for content -- understanding that things which take a long time to research and create must be paid for, otherwise everything becomes done as a part-time hobby. Your journalism, your music, your art, etc. I am particularly concerned, not just self-interestedly but in terms of protecting democracy, that journalism does not become a few isolated spots of paywall-protected content and then tons of regurgitated shit about video games, celebs, music and all the other crap which, let's face it, doesn't really "matter" as much as human rights, holding governments accountable, uncovering corruption, stopping us going to war, etc.

Back to DRM: I face a problem which is indirectly in this area. My UK publisher has more or less, I think, let my book drift slowly out of print. It sold out three print runs of paperbacks, but they never printed another. There are still some floating around second hand, and some hardbacks left, but their business model (like a lot of hard-squeezed book publishers) is pile 'em high, get 'em out quick and cheap. Once they release a book, BANG!, it's on to the next one. There is no time it seems to develop a "slow burn" approach. It's instant best seller or you're dropped.

Second, still on my case and related to digital rights, my US publisher illegally (i.e. without my permission or contract to agree this) took my book, scanned it, made it available to Google Books (while still trying to sell the hardback/physical edition in the USA at the same time) and also put it onto the Amazon KIndle. I have no problem, per se, of my books being available electronically. But here's the issue: we have no contract agreeing digital rights. Therefore it is extremely unlikely the US publisher is paying the higher-end royalties that most agents and writers are pursuing when it comes to digital. Particularly with back-catalogue titles, there is very little cost other than converting the text into electronic format (with a new book launch, the publishers argue they still have lots of sales and marketing costs). So I have been trying to find out what royalties I am being paid in the USA for these digital rights - I get no answer. I have no influence where or how or under what DRM the book is sold. I probably get paid the minimum *physical* royalty rates (e.g. 10% of the sale price of a hardcover) rather than the "Standard" minimum digital rates (25% of the sale price). And notwithstanding that, the fucktards actually scanned and provided the book *for free* to fucking Google!!! So great for researchers, fine for them, but screws me over royally in terms of recouping my substantial time/money/danger investment in what was a six-year project. It's commercial lunacy and I would be unable, ever again, to afford to research such a book under such restrictive/crap paying conditions.

Of course, the publishers' business model is collapsing, like newspapers/magazines, and so they pay even lower advance (upfront) payments, too, making it doubly-harder to research and write. So the book business model, maybe like music and other areas, seems to suit a mass of people - millions - chucking out their content for almost-free and hoping, in desperation, it shifts enough at $0.10c per click that it makes them a living. Sorting out DRM is one element of that, but our (the content creators') traditional routes (publishers/newspapers) are restricting us with their terms; if we put out content for free or self-publish and ask for payment, fine, but we have little marketing clout (i.e. how do you get seen/heard and then convince people to buy).

Don't get me wrong: out of all this mess something, or somethings, will emerge. But people shouldn't kid themselves it is fair or right to continue to pay nothing. Hiding behind DRM as one part of that, albeit I agree an important part (which I hope will be solved) is still a fig leaf for people not to admit they are doing people out of a living. As with the gold rush, though, I suspect new models and markets will emerge, new forms of "publishers": but I don't expect most content creators to actually make a living wage from any of this.
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Quintilius

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PostSubject: Re: Upcoming Swedish election   Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:45 pm

Nice and informative post there Oppy. I am very supportive of artists getting payed for their work. My social circle mostly consist of creative people, be it authors, actors or musicians, and many of them starting to become sucessful and I agree that paying nothing for anything is wrong, but the whole war against piracy, I think, is waged on the wrong terms, and it is not nessescarily the pirates that deserves all the blame.

Anyways, I don't know enough to skillfully debate this topic yet, though I am very interested in it. Some weeks ago I bought THIS BOOK

It's big and rather dry reading and I haven't had time to really get into it yet, but so far it's been very interesting.
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Manovan Marrowsteel

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PostSubject: Re: Upcoming Swedish election   Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:12 pm

Now I have voted. Voted for the Left. Does that make me the world's most capitalistic communist?
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Tavecy



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PostSubject: Re: Upcoming Swedish election   Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:47 pm

I voted for Vänsterpartiet in all three choiches.

I feel that no matter what party you gave your vote to it is good that you voted.
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Shadowtroll

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PostSubject: Re: Upcoming Swedish election   Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:49 pm

I support this thread for bit off topic and cause of Pirates Day!


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