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 Polyphasic sleep, anyone?

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PostSubject: Re: Polyphasic sleep, anyone?   Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:52 pm

It is not superstition that messing with your body clock causes problems in your general awareness and ability to function.

Found something interesting about it though.

Quote :
The answer to the question "to sleep or not to sleep polyphasically" will depend on your goals and your chosen criteria. You may want to sleep polyphasically if you want to maximize the frequency of a waking activity (e.g. monitoring the instruments and the horizon in solo yacht racing). Yet you will definitely not want to sleep polyphasically if:

* you want to maximize your creative output
* you want to maximize your peak alertness, your average alertness, or minimize the impact of your worst alertness levels
* you want to maximize the health effects of sleep, etc.

Paradoxically, not are you even likely to choose polyphasic sleep if you want to maximize the time spent in the waking state! Only when approaching substantial sleep deprivation can polyphasic schedule be superior to biphasic schedule in that respect.

Quote from Polyphasic Sleep: Facts and Myths

http://www.supermemo.com/articles/polyphasic.htm
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PostSubject: Re: Polyphasic sleep, anyone?   Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:22 pm

But that quote describes the sleep deprivation of adaption period, Lion.

Quote :
By the time you get through the first 5-7 days , you should be feeling dramatically better; sleep-dep symptoms should only be happening once or twice a day for short periods of time, and if you keep it up without mistakes, by Day 10 (or earlier) you should feel no deprivation symptoms at all. The process of adjusting ususally works like this: For a day or more, you can't sleep at all, or you only sleep for a nap or two (and then are less than happy when you have to wake up after twenty minutes!). Then you begin to sleep for a nap, or two naps, during the day that's a good sign things are progressing. By the end of week one, you should be able to sleep for most or all of your scheduled naps, and be only a little tired, if at all, during the night. If you reach day 10 (without major screwups) and you still can't sleep during your naps, and/or you're still feeling terrible at night, something's wrong; you're not adjusting.

Quote is from "Ubersleep", the book about polyphasic sleeping. The point is simple, if you manage to keep to your schedule, sleep deprivation symptoms will go away. But very very many don't manage this. Any time you move a nap, sleep five minutes extra, go to bed too late or anything like it, you set your brain back a bit. And that's why about 90% of the people trying this fails. And with such a high fail ratio, it's no wonder false assumptions get spread.

I stick to what I've said before, I'd rather believe the word of someone who has lived with this for several years, than people basing their texts on what they've heard, or failed experiments. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Polyphasic sleep, anyone?   Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:33 am

I failed a little today. Sad Managed to sleep an hour extra after my core nap. I feel fine now, but I expect I will pay for it later.
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PostSubject: Re: Polyphasic sleep, anyone?   Sat Nov 21, 2009 11:43 am

Update for anyone interested in how this is going:

Last night, I managed to spend the entire period between my midnight nap and core sleep being creative and productive. I painted a bit, and started a new sewing project Smile I was tired, but not in any way so much that it got in the way.

Peculiarly, the difficult period has now moved to mornings instead.. I have an exam to prepare for, so we have very little other schoolwork. Being at home and having the day off makes waking up properly at seven a little tricky, since I normally don't feel like doing schoolwork until after my noon nap. I nearly fell asleep again this morning. I think I'm going to have to schedule some kind of activity as soon as I wake up. Morning walks, perhaps?
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PostSubject: Re: Polyphasic sleep, anyone?   Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:56 pm

I'm very interested to hear how you're doing Ry.

I'd certainly recommend an early walk to anybody, no matter what they might be up to. Being out and about in the dark winter mornings can be a lovely experience if for no other reason than its something that most people never get to see.

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PostSubject: Re: Polyphasic sleep, anyone?   Thu Nov 26, 2009 8:46 am

Update: I'm starting to see why so many people fail with their adaption. The beginning was pretty easy, it's now it's getting difficult. Mornings after my core nap have been pure torture, and I've managed to fall asleep for 15-20 minutes extra several mornings during the last week. Now, this morning, I somehow managed to turn off all three alarms and go back to sleep, without even being able to remember it, and slept for two hours too much. It was going so well and this feels like a huge setback Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Polyphasic sleep, anyone?   Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:44 pm

Ryleen wrote:
Now, this morning, I somehow managed to turn off all three alarms and go back to sleep, without even being able to remember it, Sad
ITs those damn gnomes i tell ya! nobody believes me, but they'l see!
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PostSubject: Re: Polyphasic sleep, anyone?   Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:03 pm

Today marks one month since I started this, and I feel great!

I'm constantly amazed at how wonderful this is. I sleep well, I have all the time in the world.. I'm really happy I discovered this.

There are still mornings when I feel tired, but they are becoming fewer and fewer. Napping is the most wonderful thing in the world, I wake up each time feeling like I had a full night's sleep. And the dreams.. I dream from the second I close my eyes until I wake up, and so far only nice dreams. Smile

I imagine that in yet another month, I'll be fully adapted and it will feel completely normal to me.
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PostSubject: Re: Polyphasic sleep, anyone?   Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:22 pm

cheers

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PostSubject: Re: Polyphasic sleep, anyone?   Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:22 am

I might try this then. *scratches chin*
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PostSubject: Re: Polyphasic sleep, anyone?   Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:32 am

this all sounds fucked up

the human body needs four hours sleep, mini just to work how it should, messing with your body clock can be bad

i know, on my nco course they push you to the max, and on the tactical exersie they made us go with out sleep for 7 days, and yes i never sleeped for 7 days

during this time i had to run recon patrols, fighting patrols and ambushes, give and recive orders, call in close air support to with in 100 meters of our locashion (which if you know anything about air to ground attacks is real dam close)

getting any of this wrong would and could cost you your new strip

i know how i felt afer 7days, i remember been like a zombie and on one night of stag i swear on my wifes life that i saw a herd of pink elephants i shit you not

the thing that this showed me and helped me learn is neven now afetr been out of the amry for 2 years i can go 3 days with out anysleep and run like i had had a good 8 hours, and what i have found is that if you plan to stay up all night and then power nab, which makes you feel so much better, it only lasts for a short time, your body then wants more sleep, and the effects of lack of sleep hit you harder

i cant see how this can be any good for you, and with exams coming i cant see how you as a person and learn and get your self ready for them, every one needs 8 hours unbroken sleep, that is what humans do, 4 at the minium. i can only guess that you are hurting your self and putting hard work in danger by not resting properly and propering for it in the right way.

but thats just mmy 2 cents
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PostSubject: Re: Polyphasic sleep, anyone?   Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:36 pm

The main reason for sleep is REM or something, normal sleeping is ineffective, this schedule optimizes it.
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PostSubject: Re: Polyphasic sleep, anyone?   Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:10 pm

What munechi said.

Read about it before commenting the actual method. Unless you just want to say "goodnight" or "good luck" or talking randomly around the subject (like me tihi), in which case it's fine to not read about it.
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PostSubject: Re: Polyphasic sleep, anyone?   Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:18 pm

munechi wrote:
The main reason for sleep is REM or something, normal sleeping is ineffective, this schedule optimizes it.

the only way to get REM sleep is to go into a deep sleep, power naps and the odd sleep here and there does not let you do that

if running on lots of little sleeps was so good for you then more people would do it, 99.9% of people have ave of 8 hours.. reason its good for you

as for my posts, afetr been in the army for 12 years and serving in three conflicts i know about lack of sleep and the effects it has on your body and mind, been a nco and team leader of a sniper team, getting the guess rested was on of my most important rolls, after all they are going to be able to get that shot off if both guys are working right
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PostSubject: Re: Polyphasic sleep, anyone?   Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:36 pm

Because it isn't optimized. if it was then you would go in the deep sleep immediatly.

To optimize it you need to adapt to it which is too hard for a lot of people.
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PostSubject: Re: Polyphasic sleep, anyone?   Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:43 pm

this is what happens if you dot sleep

Quote :
What would happen if we didn't sleep?


A good way to understand the role of sleep is to look at what would happen if we didn't sleep. Lack of sleep has serious effects on our brain's ability to function. If you've ever pulled an all-nighter, you'll be familiar with the following after-effects: grumpiness, grogginess, irritability and forgetfulness. After just one night without sleep, concentration becomes more difficult and attention span shortens considerably.

With continued lack of sufficient sleep, the part of the brain that controls language, memory, planning and sense of time is severely affected, practically shutting down. In fact, 17 hours of sustained wakefulness leads to a decrease in performance equivalent to a blood alcohol level of 0.05% (two glasses of wine). This is the legal drink driving limit in the UK.

Research also shows that sleep-deprived individuals often have difficulty in responding to rapidly changing situations and making rational judgements. In real life situations, the consequences are grave and lack of sleep is said to have been be a contributory factor to a number of international disasters such as Exxon Valdez, Chernobyl, Three Mile Island and the Challenger shuttle explosion.

Sleep deprivation not only has a major impact on cognitive functioning but also on emotional and physical health. Disorders such as sleep apnoea which result in excessive daytime sleepiness have been linked to stress and high blood pressure. Research has also suggested that sleep loss may increase the risk of obesity because chemicals and hormones that play a key role in controlling appetite and weight gain are released during sleep.

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PostSubject: Re: Polyphasic sleep, anyone?   Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:38 pm

You still fail to understand what this actually is, and nobody is arguing about lack of sleep itself.
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PostSubject: Re: Polyphasic sleep, anyone?   Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:31 pm

I don't think Ryleen has any of those problems and she has been doing it for a month so that means it is working.
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PostSubject: Re: Polyphasic sleep, anyone?   Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:23 pm

Polyphasic sleep does not equal lack of sleep. Please understand the subject before discussing it as if you're an expert. Yes, you've been in the army for a long time and experienced lack of sleep, but that's not what's being discussed here. Sorry, mate.

The main idea is that power naps gives the body the rest it needs in a 24 hour period to immediately go into the deep sleep in the longer sleep (read: not near as long as 8 hours, instead more like 4-5), thus directly providing the rest needed in only a short time. If I understood it correctly that is. At least it's something along those lines.
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PostSubject: Re: Polyphasic sleep, anyone?   Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:47 pm

Well, I got "used" to a version of "power naps" when our kid was a baby -- all those days/nights when you have to be awake at random times. I'm curious, however, if the discipline (I think is) necessary to perform/get into a polyphasic sleep routine will work as easily when one has a partner; a child(ren); a job with set hours; needing to drive to work; etc. Or if it requires/works best when one has no other constraints on one's life/time (or fewer constraints), such as being a student, unemployed, and so on. I don't know the answer to that, I think it'd be (even) harder with more distractions and pulls on one's time.
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PostSubject: Re: Polyphasic sleep, anyone?   Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:00 pm

im not saying im an expert, but i am saying that i have had 12 years of working in a job that demands that you sleep in a funny pattern for long priods of time, and before some one says that it wasnt like that for 12 full years your right it wasnt, but for 8 of them i was opertaional in northern ireland for 8 years, doing patrol ops and covert CTR's, and above that 2 conflicts

in a sniper team we would work 2 hours on 2 hours off in a hide, meaning in that 2 hours you would sleep shit and eat, also clean your gun, not all in that break but one or the other, so for up to 2 weeks we would live on 2 hour sleep every 4/6 hours, very close to what ryleen is doing now, and not once in that short time would i say i fell into a deep sleep were i had dreams, which is what rem sleep is, the fact that ryleen is, could be down to the fact that her body is crying out for sleep so she passes out far faster than any normal person, anyone who has done a night shift will no what i mean, you work 12 hours over the night say 7 till 7 in the morning, once your head hits the pillow your out for it, not because you have trainined your body to sleep like this but because your so wrecked that it needs it

she may not been having any problems now and yes ive read here that animals have been talked about, but sleep no matter what age is the time the body fixes its self, be it muscaul damage or illness or anything else, also any large amount off info your body takes in, when you sleep it gives you body time to sort it out and also helps you remember it

the fact that if anything happens to you ie car crash or something along them lines, the police well give you 24hours befor speaking to you, this is to let you rest and get things inyour head inline, sleep plays a big part of that
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PostSubject: Re: Polyphasic sleep, anyone?   Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:08 pm

Luko wrote:
im not saying im an expert, but i am saying that i have had 12 years of working in a job that demands that you sleep in a funny pattern for long priods of time, and before some one says that it wasnt like that for 12 full years your right it wasnt, but for 8 of them i was opertaional in northern ireland for 8 years, doing patrol ops and covert CTR's, and above that 2 conflicts
Since this is the basis of the rest of your post, I'll just say that you're misunderstanding already. There's no "funny pattern" in what Ryleen is doing. You, in your training, have had to sleep in random patterns, and what Ryleen is doing is the opposite of that.
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PostSubject: Re: Polyphasic sleep, anyone?   Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:11 pm

so sleeping 1 hour every 5 hours or sleepin 2 hours every 4/6 isnt the same as sleeping a solid 4 hours anight with 20min naps?
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PostSubject: Re: Polyphasic sleep, anyone?   Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:18 pm

To answer questions and misguided statements:

I feel perfectly fine. This has not hurt my ability to study, I passed the exam I did a few weeks ago. (And that was while I was still experiencing some sleep deprivation, mind you). Nor has it hurt my creative ability, my art is as good as ever, as is my ability to rp.

Yes, going without sleep for an extended period of time is bad. I did not. I had too little sleep for about ten days. Then my body adapted. I do no longer experience any signs of sleep deprivation.

I would like proof that people has to have eight hours straight of sleep or they hurt themselves. So far, I have only seen proof of the opposite. (something you negative people interestingly has chosen to ignore. People have been living like this for years with no harm done to them. How does that prove your point?)

I would also like to argue that basing your observations on completely unrelated sleep experiences is ridiculous. I run a controlled and carefully planned schedule. It is in no way the same as simply stopping with sleep.

As to why society looks as it does, one theory is that it was forced to look like it does today for thousands of years, and that's why we still do it. You know, back before electric lights and stuff, it only made sense to sleep at night and get the most out of daylight. It was good for you in the sense that it helped you gather enough food to live. We've done so ever since we stopped being hunter/gatherers, and old habits die hard. I'm not claiming it's the truth, but it's a theory.

As for illness; of course you need more sleep when you're ill. Monophasic people do as well. More sleep =/= monophasic sleep, however. Increased length of naps and possibly extra naps will take care of it.


Last edited by Ryleen on Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Polyphasic sleep, anyone?   Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:20 pm

Oh, and Opathu: Marie (puredoxyk) works in an office with decided work hours, has a monophasic husband and a small child (I think five-ish). She drives to and from work each day, she works out several times a week, she takes distance classes at some university, she wrote a book and a bunch of other stuff, and it works perfectly for her. She recommends going through the first adaption period during vacation though, since the period of tiredness will have an impact on your life.
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