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 Scarshield shoots itself in the foot again

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PostSubject: Scarshield shoots itself in the foot again   Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:36 pm

Well, certain people shoot it in the foot:
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=10431394697&sid=1

True, Lathspell could have done with being a little calmer in the thread, but having had the event happen twice before and the fact that the idea is actually a good one it is a real shame that it looks likely to never happen again.

Also, it raises an interesting point. Just because some people have a vaguely coherent understanding of the RP here, does that mean that everyone else has to fit in to it or can there be more than 1 meta-narrative (or big picture) for the server?
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Kadris

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PostSubject: Re: Scarshield shoots itself in the foot again   Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:03 pm

<sensible reply>

I wouldn't say it's SSL on the whole.

I had nothing to do with this event but that thread has just disgusted me as many on the realm forum do. Anyone with an ounce of sense (and decency) would see the event for what it was and just back off so they could have their fun. 80s ganking 1st lvls? Come on... The sense of fair play seems to be missing in many people these days.
And yes, I've had a go at people in my own guild for doing things that breach my idea of fair play.

</end sensible reply>


<personal view>

Trolls and 'It's just the internet' wankers ruin things.

They don't give a fuck about anyone but themselves because they're just on the internerd and can turn off if it's bothering them... then there's the 'wai so srs?' and 'gamez are srs bzns' taunting. Why the feck should anyone HAVE to switch off because some twat online is being an asshole? (queue Team America speech)
They've got the 'I'm so cool, I can pwn on teh internerd' attitudes so far up their arses they get thrills from the tickles.

I abhor them.

So there's my 'QQ' and 'nerdrage'.

They can go and fap on their keyboards as they think up smart retorts.

</end personal view>
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Opathu

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PostSubject: Re: Scarshield shoots itself in the foot again   Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:12 am

Simple:

People want attention. For some, the internet (games and forums) gives it to them. When they have responsibilities and social skills, they'll (eventually) understand.

I had the same problem when I ran the Slave Train event. There was a level 70 undead rogue called Ephrah or something similar who kept ganking the low level Alliance slaves. We all asked him to stop: he just "lolled". We asked a GM to intervene, as this had been advertised on the blues events stickies: he said this was server rules (i.e. you need a level 70/80 Alliance to go and kill the undead rogue). When we talked on the forums, the guy and his friend said he enjoyed doing this, was a bit drunk, and that was it.

Lessons? Guys aged 16-20ish - some of them at least - love attention. Being an asswad gets them more noticed than being meek and quiet. Probably something they've developed during their life, lacking attention IRL. Who knows. But it happens a lot.
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PostSubject: Re: Scarshield shoots itself in the foot again   Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:36 am

Just wanted to highlight the more useful thing to discuss in this thread:

Gurfang wrote:
Also, it raises an interesting point. Just because some people have a vaguely coherent understanding of the RP here, does that mean that everyone else has to fit in to it or can there be more than 1 meta-narrative (or big picture) for the server?

What do people think?
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Kadris

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PostSubject: Re: Scarshield shoots itself in the foot again   Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:59 am

Gurfang wrote:

Also, it raises an interesting point. Just because some people have a vaguely coherent understanding of the RP here, does that mean that everyone else has to fit in to it or can there be more than 1 meta-narrative (or big picture) for the server?

If it was missed in my post - I think it simply requires a sense of fair play from all. Regardless of it being an rppvp or just a pvp server.

In terms of rp, yes, we'd come down on alliance turning up in horde lands but certain things CAN require turning a blind eye so people can enjoy an event that's been set up - unless they WANT it to be a pvp event and invite us to turn up and try to kill them (and vice-versa).

I generally don't gank low levels anyway because it serves no purpose. They haven't got a hope of fighting back.
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PostSubject: Re: Scarshield shoots itself in the foot again   Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:08 am

If you want to see how different understandings of RP can lead to MASSIVE drama check this still ongoing war on Argent Dawn.

http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=10711271976&sid=1

I was in that guild and they are just as crazy as everyone says they are.
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PostSubject: Re: Scarshield shoots itself in the foot again   Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:12 am

Not really what I meant. I'm asking whether there has to be 1 server-wide RP theme/story that anyone who is a part of SSL must adhere to. Sure, it can be useful if people do, but if we consider this as a bunch of electrical parts storing information to create a space for people to RP then surely that means that anyone can RP what they want. As a result, this could mean that we have 2 groups RPing the same role, but just because this could come across as a bit silly, does that mean that people can react and say "We own this place so we can gank you if we want" or should it mean that we live and let live and hope to combine together productively in the future?
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PostSubject: Re: Scarshield shoots itself in the foot again   Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:17 am

Yeah thats a cool thread Quint, I was reading a bit of it already. Smile

As for the event this Lathspell tried to organise seems to me , and I might be mistaken, that he didn't really engage the community here with what he was trying to do and try to get people on board. Seems like it was promoted better outside the realm.

I would have thought a PvE realm would be a billion times better for his idea, he could move everyone into position without ganking, get your guards in place, then at the right signal everyone acivates PvP and the level 1 battle commences.
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PostSubject: Re: Scarshield shoots itself in the foot again   Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:22 am

Vexacus wrote:
Yeah thats a cool thread Quint, I was reading a bit of it already. Smile

As for the event this Lathspell tried to organise seems to me , and I might be mistaken, that he didn't really engage the community here with what he was trying to do and try to get people on board. Seems like it was promoted better outside the realm.

I would have thought a PvE realm would be a billion times better for his idea, he could move everyone into position without ganking, get your guards in place, then at the right signal everyone acivates PvP and the level 1 battle commences.

2 points:

1 - Not the first one of these events, so my guess is that he hoped that people remembered and those that didn't would read the appropriate threads and the GG report and then join in.

2 - This realm, IIRC, was originally chosen for the first one because of our population level. Getting loads of new people to come from outside a server to play can be a problem when you are limited in how many can actually join before it's full.
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PostSubject: Re: Scarshield shoots itself in the foot again   Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:41 am

Gurfang wrote:

2 points:

1 - Not the first one of these events, so my guess is that he hoped that people remembered and those that didn't would read the appropriate threads and the GG report and then join in.

2 - This realm, IIRC, was originally chosen for the first one because of our population level. Getting loads of new people to come from outside a server to play can be a problem when you are limited in how many can actually join before it's full.

Hoping based on peoples memories doesn't exactly seem like a good idea if you want your event to work.

There are plenty of half dead PvE realms out there.
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PostSubject: Re: Scarshield shoots itself in the foot again   Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:48 am

Vexacus wrote:
Gurfang wrote:

2 points:

1 - Not the first one of these events, so my guess is that he hoped that people remembered and those that didn't would read the appropriate threads and the GG report and then join in.

2 - This realm, IIRC, was originally chosen for the first one because of our population level. Getting loads of new people to come from outside a server to play can be a problem when you are limited in how many can actually join before it's full.

Hoping based on peoples memories doesn't exactly seem like a good idea if you want your event to work.

There are plenty of half dead PvE realms out there.

True, but not at the time of the first event, which was possibly pre-TBC, if not very soon after TBC was released.
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PostSubject: Re: Scarshield shoots itself in the foot again   Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:42 am

If I went to another server, I would expect to have to slot in with whatever's already in place on that server. If we don't all combine and agree to one 'world' rp plot-line, then yes I agree it would get silly.
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PostSubject: Re: Scarshield shoots itself in the foot again   Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:45 am

Kadris wrote:
If I went to another server, I would expect to have to slot in with whatever's already in place on that server. If we don't all combine and agree to one 'world' rp plot-line, then yes I agree it would get silly.

But do we have to, or can we allow 2 different world views to exist at the same time?
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PostSubject: Re: Scarshield shoots itself in the foot again   Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:06 pm

Gurfang wrote:
Kadris wrote:
If I went to another server, I would expect to have to slot in with whatever's already in place on that server. If we don't all combine and agree to one 'world' rp plot-line, then yes I agree it would get silly.

But do we have to, or can we allow 2 different world views to exist at the same time?

Um... Well 'have to' is an impossible thing to enforce.

Having duplicate world views would eventually cause problems. Either all rpers agree to co-operate or there will be clashes leading to whole guilds ignoring other guilds while some guilds who aren't ignoring the ignored guilds have plot clashes with the ignoring guilds... yadda yadda yadda.

Crazy silliness, imo.

Much easier to discuss ideas with the current guilds/set-up and see where new or duplicated ideas can be modified and slotted in. In an ideal world at least. We rp together, we might as well build on a set environment together for cohesion.
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PostSubject: Re: Scarshield shoots itself in the foot again   Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:40 pm

The possibility of having two conflicting RP situations depends entirely on whether the people involved actually come into contact often. If they do, it's obvious untenable, but if they have no intention of acknowledging eachother ICly then it may not be ideal, but it's not wrong. After all, neither of them has any right to tell the other to stop ("we got here first" doesn't make one side right) and both views are just as valid.

While in such a case both sides are being stupid and stubborn, neither is right or wrong, because the fact is nobody is obligated to anyone else in any way just by dint of rolling on the same server.

The only foolproof way of stopping stuff like this happening is the simplest and hardest way...people magically stop being shits. Sadly, the next best thing RP organisers can do is not be shits themselves and plan for the eventuality of other people being shits. They shouldn't have to, but eh.
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PostSubject: Re: Scarshield shoots itself in the foot again   Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:36 pm

Crowley wrote:
Sadly, the next best thing RP organisers can do is not be shits themselves and plan for the eventuality of other people being shits. They shouldn't have to, but eh.

yep. and this doesn't only aply to RP events.

any event that is in a zone where pvp is possible is a potential target for idiots. (like the peon run)

a solution is to not advertise the event on the realm forums, that way there is a smaller chance high level players will know about it. but it also causes less players you want to come to know about it. so this isnt a perfect solution either. Sad


the only way that i can think of that events will be safe is with an army of guards or with a better (enforced) policy and organizers being able to quickly get a GM when needed.
both aren't easily done.
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PostSubject: Re: Scarshield shoots itself in the foot again   Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:17 pm

Gurfang wrote:
Vexacus wrote:
Gurfang wrote:

2 points:

1 - Not the first one of these events, so my guess is that he hoped that people remembered and those that didn't would read the appropriate threads and the GG report and then join in.

2 - This realm, IIRC, was originally chosen for the first one because of our population level. Getting loads of new people to come from outside a server to play can be a problem when you are limited in how many can actually join before it's full.

Hoping based on peoples memories doesn't exactly seem like a good idea if you want your event to work.

There are plenty of half dead PvE realms out there.

True, but not at the time of the first event, which was possibly pre-TBC, if not very soon after TBC was released.

It was in TBC - I was one of the guards Wink
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