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 Blood Elf society?

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Lyranne

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PostSubject: Re: Blood Elf society?   Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:06 am

Why must it? If I was RPing an English person, would I RP their stereotype as part of her background? Would I do the same for RPing a German? No, I wouldn't. Why, even with what is known, is it accepted that because it's a game, that the steotype is fact, and not just that - a stereotype? I've already argued that this is a form of racism, and if everyone adheres to this, then we really aren't allowing people any freedom with the race.

If you tolerate such limitations, then you're only making the world less immersive, not moreso. Sure, frown upon vampires, lycanthropes and the overly dramatic; but to tut at an elf that's a nice person? Sorry, that just seems arrogant in it's attitude. Are these the selfsame people who feel that every tauren -must- be a loving, caring druid, even though Grimtotems exist? If you accept that the latter is a part of the equation, then how can you not have room for 'good' elves, when there are so many in the game?

Honestly; if every elf is RPed the same way, I think I'll just head to one of them, and imagine they're every other, such is the template that people believe must be put in place.
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Seidra

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PostSubject: Re: Blood Elf society?   Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:48 pm

Lyranne wrote:
Why must it? If I was RPing an English person, would I RP their stereotype as part of her background? Would I do the same for RPing a German? No, I wouldn't. Why, even with what is known, is it accepted that because it's a game, that the steotype is fact, and not just that - a stereotype? I've already argued that this is a form of racism, and if everyone adheres to this, then we really aren't allowing people any freedom with the race.

If you tolerate such limitations, then you're only making the world less immersive, not moreso. Sure, frown upon vampires, lycanthropes and the overly dramatic; but to tut at an elf that's a nice person? Sorry, that just seems arrogant in it's attitude. Are these the selfsame people who feel that every tauren -must- be a loving, caring druid, even though Grimtotems exist? If you accept that the latter is a part of the equation, then how can you not have room for 'good' elves, when there are so many in the game?

Honestly; if every elf is RPed the same way, I think I'll just head to one of them, and imagine they're every other, such is the template that people believe must be put in place.

English or german are not a Race id say...

Maybe we could say Muslim and Christian but than again that would sound wrong too..

Well on another thought I think you are right...
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Archnazg

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PostSubject: Re: Blood Elf society?   Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:05 pm

All this fuss is where drama is developed from. Roleplay how you like, and stick to the race "guidelines" if you want to. Our characters do exist in a fantasy world. Almost anything can be pulled off. Aslong as you keep away from drastic claims etc etc.

The only thing that will hinder the quality of the RP is the individual quality of the player, not what he or she is taking the role of.

Keep it simple and cool, and let the creativity flow! Thats my opinion anyway.


Last edited by Archnazg on Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Vypra
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PostSubject: Re: Blood Elf society?   Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:09 pm

okay...there is no way we can equate this to rl as there is only one species that has developed civilisation. Maybe if the cats got off their lazy butts and bothered developing vocal chords capable of speech we could, but that's not going to happen as they already got us doing everything for them anyway Wink

Seidra, your example is retarded. sorry but it is. if english and german aren't different races then how are christian and muslim? those are ideologies ffs Razz

the main problem ppl have with this whole 'i'm not going to stick to the stereotype' thing is more that in not doing so, we just end up0 'humanising' everything.

Please bear in mind we have never had any experience with another 'intelligent' species. I do notice that we all seem to fall into the the 'star trek trap' of thinking that all non-humans would be better off if they would all just act like us anyway Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Blood Elf society?   Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:07 pm

Lyranne wrote:
Why must it? If I was RPing an English person, would I RP their stereotype as part of her background? Would I do the same for RPing a German? No, I wouldn't. Why, even with what is known, is it accepted that because it's a game, that the steotype is fact, and not just that - a stereotype? I've already argued that this is a form of racism, and if everyone adheres to this, then we really aren't allowing people any freedom with the race.

If you tolerate such limitations, then you're only making the world less immersive, not moreso. Sure, frown upon vampires, lycanthropes and the overly dramatic; but to tut at an elf that's a nice person? Sorry, that just seems arrogant in it's attitude. Are these the selfsame people who feel that every tauren -must- be a loving, caring druid, even though Grimtotems exist? If you accept that the latter is a part of the equation, then how can you not have room for 'good' elves, when there are so many in the game?

Honestly; if every elf is RPed the same way, I think I'll just head to one of them, and imagine they're every other, such is the template that people believe must be put in place.

Ok, I guess the word "stereotype" is a bit misleading here. What I am saying is that you can RP any way you want, but you cannot deny the fact that as a rule the Blood Elf race are arrogant, proud and magic-addicted. As such, your character MUST come with that in the background to some extent. To do otherwise would be the same as RPing an eloquent Orc who claims that his mother taught him good table manners. It just doesn't make sense.
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Feronius

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PostSubject: Re: Blood Elf society?   Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:33 pm

Unless you can back it up with a realistic background story.
Keep it realistic, that's the key.
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Seidra

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PostSubject: Re: Blood Elf society?   Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:58 pm

Vypra wrote:
okay...there is no way we can equate this to rl as there is only one species that has developed civilisation. Maybe if the cats got off their lazy butts and bothered developing vocal chords capable of speech we could, but that's not going to happen as they already got us doing everything for them anyway Wink

Seidra, your example is retarded. sorry but it is. if english and german aren't different races then how are christian and muslim? those are ideologies ffs Razz

the main problem ppl have with this whole 'i'm not going to stick to the stereotype' thing is more that in not doing so, we just end up0 'humanising' everything.

Please bear in mind we have never had any experience with another 'intelligent' species. I do notice that we all seem to fall into the the 'star trek trap' of thinking that all non-humans would be better off if they would all just act like us anyway Razz

I think I added at the end of the sentence "that would sound wrong too" to make sure everyone understands it doesnt make complete sense..

But it makes more sense than

French- German

Since there is a huge culture difference between those groups. And you may misunderstood me or maybe I didnt put it right with Christian and Muslim I mean more something like Southern- Northern or Eastern and Western.. Maybe I shouldnt have used the religious naming for the example..

But even if I would say something like Arab - German it still wouldnt make much of a sense...
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PostSubject: Re: Blood Elf society?   Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:16 am

Seidra wrote:
Vypra wrote:
okay...there is no way we can equate this to rl as there is only one species that has developed civilisation. Maybe if the cats got off their lazy butts and bothered developing vocal chords capable of speech we could, but that's not going to happen as they already got us doing everything for them anyway Wink

Seidra, your example is retarded. sorry but it is. if english and german aren't different races then how are christian and muslim? those are ideologies ffs Razz

the main problem ppl have with this whole 'i'm not going to stick to the stereotype' thing is more that in not doing so, we just end up0 'humanising' everything.

Please bear in mind we have never had any experience with another 'intelligent' species. I do notice that we all seem to fall into the the 'star trek trap' of thinking that all non-humans would be better off if they would all just act like us anyway Razz

I think I added at the end of the sentence "that would sound wrong too" to make sure everyone understands it doesnt make complete sense..

But it makes more sense than

French- German

Since there is a huge culture difference between those groups. And you may misunderstood me or maybe I didnt put it right with Christian and Muslim I mean more something like Southern- Northern or Eastern and Western.. Maybe I shouldnt have used the religious naming for the example..

But even if I would say something like Arab - German it still wouldnt make much of a sense...

I think the safe bet it to just avoid comparisons of religion in things like this, especially as religions generally have different cultural aspects depending upon where in the world you look.
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Lyranne

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PostSubject: Re: Blood Elf society?   Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:57 am

Gurfang wrote:

Ok, I guess the word "stereotype" is a bit misleading here. What I am saying is that you can RP any way you want, but you cannot deny the fact that as a rule the Blood Elf race are arrogant, proud and magic-addicted. As such, your character MUST come with that in the background to some extent. To do otherwise would be the same as RPing an eloquent Orc who claims that his mother taught him good table manners. It just doesn't make sense.

Hmm, so where in the lore does it have orcs as anything less than eloquent if above the level of 'peon'? Why would a rogue Blood Elf be of the same social standing as a Mage? None of that makes any sense whatsoever. Murder Row is populated by what the Bwelves consider 'lower classes' if a class system exists, how can you possibly state that -all- belves are arrogant and so forth? The magic addiction has been side-lined since the close of TBC anyway, so again, that seems a moot point. In addition, there are belve, prior to that, which actually were fighting said addiction.

I was comparing it to real life because any society, be they alien or not, will have individuals, -not- clones. Regardless of whether people try to humanise a race, the fact of the matter is you'll always have free-thinkers (unless the leaders of the Belves did what Hitler, Stalin, etc did and killed absolutely everyone that disagreed, or forced them into exile). In addition, the closest I get to humanising my characters is by giving them more than one emotion (which Star Trek was pretty terrible at, if you think about how -almost- every Klingon was the same, and how -almost- every Vulcan was likewise - in fact, both Star Trek and Star Wars are just as guilty of perpetuating stereotypes as many RPers seem insistant on being).

And to reiterate: Belve do have a class system, and a social pecking order, so to tell us we all have to RP as arrogant is -stupid- lazy, and pointless. No one wants to RP with arrogance (probably why I'm finding myself with little to do), and even moreso that they've now been a part of the Horde for two years. You really think that they would openly be arrogant to their allies, that have actually been there for them when they needed it? But meh. I admit I'm in a terribly confrontational mood, and so I should probably refarin from getting involved. I just loathe the idea of a 'racial template' that makes little coherent sense.
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PostSubject: Re: Blood Elf society?   Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:19 pm

Lyranne wrote:
Gurfang wrote:

Ok, I guess the word "stereotype" is a bit misleading here. What I am saying is that you can RP any way you want, but you cannot deny the fact that as a rule the Blood Elf race are arrogant, proud and magic-addicted. As such, your character MUST come with that in the background to some extent. To do otherwise would be the same as RPing an eloquent Orc who claims that his mother taught him good table manners. It just doesn't make sense.

Hmm, so where in the lore does it have orcs as anything less than eloquent if above the level of 'peon'? Why would a rogue Blood Elf be of the same social standing as a Mage? None of that makes any sense whatsoever. Murder Row is populated by what the Bwelves consider 'lower classes' if a class system exists, how can you possibly state that -all- belves are arrogant and so forth? The magic addiction has been side-lined since the close of TBC anyway, so again, that seems a moot point. In addition, there are belve, prior to that, which actually were fighting said addiction.

I was comparing it to real life because any society, be they alien or not, will have individuals, -not- clones. Regardless of whether people try to humanise a race, the fact of the matter is you'll always have free-thinkers (unless the leaders of the Belves did what Hitler, Stalin, etc did and killed absolutely everyone that disagreed, or forced them into exile). In addition, the closest I get to humanising my characters is by giving them more than one emotion (which Star Trek was pretty terrible at, if you think about how -almost- every Klingon was the same, and how -almost- every Vulcan was likewise - in fact, both Star Trek and Star Wars are just as guilty of perpetuating stereotypes as many RPers seem insistant on being).

And to reiterate: Belve do have a class system, and a social pecking order, so to tell us we all have to RP as arrogant is -stupid- lazy, and pointless. No one wants to RP with arrogance (probably why I'm finding myself with little to do), and even moreso that they've now been a part of the Horde for two years. You really think that they would openly be arrogant to their allies, that have actually been there for them when they needed it? But meh. I admit I'm in a terribly confrontational mood, and so I should probably refarin from getting involved. I just loathe the idea of a 'racial template' that makes little coherent sense.

I never said it had to be part of your character's personal background, you just have to remember what society you are coming from. So all that you've just said about Belf society is right and should be a part of the background of any character, whether it is experienced at a personal level or part of the surrounding society they have lived in.

For example, British society and all the changes that have happened in it in the last 30 years is what has affected me being who I am. Some of it has impacted me directly, other bits have affected others who have then impacted me, other bits have had no impact on me at all but they are still a part of what has happened in the UK and is thus all a part, to a greater or lesser extent, of my background.
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Quintilius

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PostSubject: Re: Blood Elf society?   Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:47 pm

Whuu... I have to agree with Grufang on this one.

Besides.. If one were to play a text-book Belf well you would not be a clone. You would be damn effing unique, cause no-one does that. All characters allways seem to be the execption to the rule and thus all the "unique" characters becomes the clones really.

I like characters who are unlikable, who are racist or abusive or just plain asshole, because if played well that's a hallmark of a really good rp'er.
Crowley for instance, one mean ass fuck who could piss off a rock, but damn awesome character. But I guess I see it from an actor point of view, cause I find it fascinating to be able to delve into character which is so far from yourself. I mean, I would find it fascinating to create a character who's sick racist rapist fuck and spend weeks trying to delve into his persona and interact though him with other chars, but that doesn't mean I would have any special affinity for the traits played. Now I am off on a rant.. I'll bugger off.. ta ta.
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